Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 01:17:12 AMI'm a little confused, If Zak said it himself then I still can't take that as proof because he came up with an excuse as to why it's ok that he did it?

It's not that it's "proof" that Zak said it. But there is something called motive. Even the police and lawyers look for it. Zak has been clear about his motive and his motives make sense---even if you don't agree with them. Everyone else is assuming or conjecturing and spreading misinformation based on their assumptions.

You are making the assumption that Zak is being honest when he states what motivates him.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:39:48 AMThe fact that Alex didn't fight about it OR ASK FOR HIS MONEY BACK, tells me that Alex knows he did something wrong.

Or that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMBut there is something called motive.

In a legal sense, motive doesn't exonerate, it simply provides context for guilt.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AMNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

This

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMIt's not that it's "proof" that Zak said it.

It is though and he did.

Wrong. People can conjecture all they want. Zak was pretty clear in his writing about what he wanted. People can go back to the beginning to read everything---and then they will also see how toxic the response have been to Zak's pretty straight forward comments. People just want to hate on him---and that's the problem. That's what creates a hate mob.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:29:11 AMI'm also talking elsewhere, but I do believe in setting facts straight. Zak is a creator with an award winning body of work. He is engaging in correcting wrongs, and I am here to support that.

QuoteNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

Fact is not spin. You can imagine motives all you want---that doesn't make it fact. You seem to have some vendetta which makes you unreliable in relaying information or opinion.

Maybe you have a problem with people standing up to transphobia. I do not. Transphobic people losing money because they are being transphobic is exactly how it should be. There should be a consequence for transphobia.

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:39:48 AMThe fact that Alex didn't fight about it OR ASK FOR HIS MONEY BACK, tells me that Alex knows he did something wrong.

Or that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMBut there is something called motive.

In a legal sense, motive doesn't exonerate, it simply provides context for guilt.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AMNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

This

Wrong. I believe in people standing up to transphophia even if it costs others. Period.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:06:05 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:39:48 AMThe fact that Alex didn't fight about it OR ASK FOR HIS MONEY BACK, tells me that Alex knows he did something wrong.

Or that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMBut there is something called motive.

In a legal sense, motive doesn't exonerate, it simply provides context for guilt.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AMNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

This

Wrong. I believe in people standing up to transphophia even if it costs others. Period.

Ah, so you are an unethical and amoral jerk as well.  You are also advocating for criminal behavior.  Got it, I can now dismiss anything else you have to say as drivel. 

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AMOr that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Of course, that shouldn't be necessary.  An ethical person taking an actual moral stance would return the money out of principle.  They wouldn't have to be forced to do so by the legal system.  Not refunding the money when you know the person you ripped off can't afford to sue is not something an ethical person would do and it's not taking a moral stance.  It's something an opportunistic snake would do and it's a swindle.  That he got away with it doesn't change that fact.  Like I said before, there's no way I would ever enter into any sort of business arrangement with someone who pulled something like this.  If he thinks he can get away with it, he will do it again in a heartbeat.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:06:05 AMWrong. I believe in people standing up to transphophia even if it costs others. Period.

Okay.  Who is this supposed "transphobe" exactly?  They haven't actually been identified here in any way.  What did they say or do that was transphobic?  I mean exactly what did they do or say not some vague nonsense about they said some transphobic thing.  Where and when?  I want a quote and an original source for the quote.  I want to see what this person said.  I don't mean paraphrased.  I mean the original quote.  Considering that you can be labeled a transphobe for saying that men should not compete in women's sports or that male rapists who identify as women should not be in women's prisons, I do not place much stock in vague accusations of transphobia. 

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 03:11:56 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:06:05 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:39:48 AMThe fact that Alex didn't fight about it OR ASK FOR HIS MONEY BACK, tells me that Alex knows he did something wrong.

Or that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMBut there is something called motive.

In a legal sense, motive doesn't exonerate, it simply provides context for guilt.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AMNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

This

Wrong. I believe in people standing up to transphophia even if it costs others. Period.

Ah, so you are an unethical and amoral jerk as well.  You are also advocating for criminal behavior.  Got it, I can now dismiss anything else you have to say as drivel. 

why attack me? because i believe in agreeing that people should stand up for marginalized trans people?

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 03:13:54 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AMOr that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Of course, that shouldn't be necessary.  An ethical person taking an actual moral stance would return the money out of principle.  They wouldn't have to be forced to do so by the legal system.  Not refunding the money when you know the person you ripped off can't afford to sue is not something an ethical person would do and it's not taking a moral stance.  It's something an opportunistic snake would do and it's a swindle.  That he got away with it doesn't change that fact.  Like I said before, there's no way I would ever enter into any sort of business arrangement with someone who pulled something like this.  If he thinks he can get away with it, he will do it again in a heartbeat.

You don't know that this was the case at all. You are only guessing at motive. The reason stated was to not promote hate campaigning against trans-people. Transphobia is never ok -- and if you have have to lose money or your business over it -- that sucks, but maybe lesson learned.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:15:32 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 03:11:56 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:06:05 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:39:48 AMThe fact that Alex didn't fight about it OR ASK FOR HIS MONEY BACK, tells me that Alex knows he did something wrong.

Or that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMBut there is something called motive.

In a legal sense, motive doesn't exonerate, it simply provides context for guilt.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AMNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

This

Wrong. I believe in people standing up to transphophia even if it costs others. Period.

Ah, so you are an unethical and amoral jerk as well.  You are also advocating for criminal behavior.  Got it, I can now dismiss anything else you have to say as drivel. 

why attack me? because i believe in agreeing that people should stand up for marginalized trans people?

You just advocated for bad behavior and actual crime.  The ends do not justify the means.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:15:32 AMwhy attack me? because i believe in agreeing that people should stand up for marginalized trans people?

Well, "believing in people standing up to transphobia even if it costs others" is bullshit. It's not a sacrifice. Believing in people standing up to transphobia even when it costs THEM is something. This cost Zak nothing. There was no sacrifice on his part. This is not an applauding moment here.

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 03:21:06 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:15:32 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 03:11:56 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:06:05 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 27, 2024, 02:56:08 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:39:48 AMThe fact that Alex didn't fight about it OR ASK FOR HIS MONEY BACK, tells me that Alex knows he did something wrong.

Or that his failing business that he sold shortly thereafter left him without funds to start a legal case.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 02:32:49 AMBut there is something called motive.

In a legal sense, motive doesn't exonerate, it simply provides context for guilt.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 27, 2024, 02:53:19 AMNo, he's not.  He is here to put his spin on this leak.  That's what you are supporting.

This

Wrong. I believe in people standing up to transphophia even if it costs others. Period.

Ah, so you are an unethical and amoral jerk as well.  You are also advocating for criminal behavior.  Got it, I can now dismiss anything else you have to say as drivel. 

why attack me? because i believe in agreeing that people should stand up for marginalized trans people?

You just advocated for bad behavior and actual crime.  The ends do not justify the means.

No. I'm advocating for correct behavior. Calling out transphobia -- and when the person called out, doesn't mind losing money -- they signals they know they were in the wrong. Transphobia is never correct.

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:17:48 AMThe reason stated was to not promote hate campaigning against trans-people. Transphobia is never ok -- and if you have have to lose money or your business over it -- that sucks, but maybe lesson learned.

Still waiting on those specific details about what this person said or did.  Now I want to see proof of this supposed hate campaigning.  Who is this person?  What, exactly, did they do or say?  When?  Where?  What is your source for this?  Also, he doesn't even allege that Macris himself did any of this.  He associated with someone who supposedly did these things.       

Disapproving of someone's opinions is not actually a valid reason for ripping them off.  If it were, any pretense could be used to justify a swindle like you are doing here.  Associating with someone you say has bad opinions is even less of a valid reason.

   

Quote from: Tristan on December 27, 2024, 03:24:59 AM

Quote from: katiefol on December 27, 2024, 03:15:32 AMwhy attack me? because i believe in agreeing that people should stand up for marginalized trans people?

Well, "believing in people standing up to transphobia even if it costs others" is bullshit. It's not a sacrifice. Believing in people standing up to transphobia even when it costs THEM is something. This cost Zak nothing. There was no sacrifice on his part. This is not an applauding moment here.

you sound like a right-winger. Yes. in order for people to do the right thing -- not be transphobic--- sometimes it costs them. Transphobia is never ok.

sorry double post

Oka, say I was hired to do some work on a ttrpg.  I have already been paid but haven't done the work.  I look around and see that the person who hired me once associated with someone who advocates for DEI policies which I, and many others, consider to be both racist and sexist.  I decide that I do not want to work for someone who platformed a racist and a sexist.  I refuse to do the work but do not refund the money.  My reason is that "racism and sexism are never okay" and that they deserve to suffer a loss because they associated with someone who advocates racism and sexism.

Would you be here defending me?

Still waiting on details and a source for this supposed transphobia.  I am starting to believe that you have no idea what this person supposedly did or said.  You just bought this accusation uncritically and didn't even ask what this person is supposed to have done.  Repeating this mantra doesn't change anything.  It just makes you look like you are parroting a talking point.