Lol yeah dude, that's totally racist approach. 1000%

Quote from: strollofturtle on Today at 01:51:35 PM

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 01:24:12 PMOk, here are the incidents that made me come this this conclusion:

A scattered handful of incidents interacting with less than .0000000000000000000000001% of the population that could be justifiably be considered "nerds", let alone the statements about "most people" which opens it up to the entire population of the planet is the basis for your conclusions?

Repeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 01:42:22 PM

Quote from: BadApple on Today at 01:40:31 PM

Quote from: katiefol on Today at 01:28:21 PM

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about.

The post in the OP looks a lot like brigading instructions that have leaked in the past from incidents that have been verified.  It is fully legitimate to examine things and call things into question.  Earned or not, Zak doesn't have the strongest reputation so it shouldn't be surprising that there would be skeptical opinions expressed.

Is/ought fallacy.

It is normal and expected on the internet to accuse without proof. It doesn't make it right.

I'm saying the behavior is shitty, not unexpected.

Read the OP with a critical eye.  If it helps, imagine if RPGPundit had written it to some of his fans in regard to your blog and comments section. 

If I start handing out small baggies with powdered sugar to kids in the park then I fully expect there will be a lot of questions about it.  A lot of them will be hostile.

It's also worth pointing out that brigading here isn't just a hypothetical.  There have been attempts. 

I don't see eye to eye with you but I have always tried to be fair.  I don't have much of a dog in this but having looked closely at this thread, you did set yourself up for stepping in the cow pie.  Hells bells, dude, I want to see you doing better.  A little more diplomacy on your part could have helped immensely.

Quote from: BadApple on Today at 01:36:44 PMNo one is calling for bad things to happen to him or for him to be silenced.  There are people he's developed a bit of a contentious relationship with though so that will come out.

I think that's disingenuous. Yes, I'm a noobie. But, just because people don't explicitly say "i want bad things to happen to Zak and I want him silenced" does not mean that they are not DOING exactly that by causing the actual damage of spreading misinformation.

QuoteIf you are a fan of his and his works, then by all means you are welcome here.  But the same freedom to laud him that you're give is also given to his critics.

It turns out, yes, I am a fan of his work. I have no problem with critics. Critics should discuss what they like and don't like about the games Zak makes. But, as soon as it turns into personal critique and opinion and misinformation based on THAT -- it becomes judgement. And that should be halted.

Quote from: BadApple on Today at 01:55:19 PMRead the OP with a critical eye.  If it helps, imagine if RPGPundit had written it to some of his fans in regard to your blog and comments section. 

I always read with a critical eye so there was no need for you to do give this lil 101-level advice or assume I hadn't.

If Pundit had said that then--because I have a simple moderation policy and not a vague one designed to give me power--I would simply not care how many people were commenting or why as long as people were following the rules because the rules prevent shitty behavior.

QuoteIf I start handing out small baggies with powdered sugar to kids in the park then I fully expect there will be a lot of questions about it.  A lot of them will be hostile.

Again:

Is/ought fallacy.

The fact that shitty behavior is common and normal does not mean it's not shitty.

QuoteA little more diplomacy on your part could have helped immensely.

You're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying that pointing out bad things members of that forum do isn't a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem.  A lot of nerds seem to think I am trying to be their friend and failing rather than doing a thing that is in no-way-impeded by their pushback. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

As long as it's productive. I don't know about other places but Lotfp facebook looked pretty dead for months, now Jim sayid he's surprised how active it got. Sounds like a good change-inducing kick in the butt

Productive discussion is always good!

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 02:04:43 PMYou're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying pointing out bad things members of that forum do isnt' a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

Is your purpose to clearly communicate your thoughts or is it to throw thoughts out there so that you get a negative response? 

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 01:54:42 PMRepeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity.  That is literally what it means to say that.

Feel free to retract your statements if you are admitting that you were inaccurately using language and thus (inadvertently presumably) spreading misinformation.

Quote from: strollofturtle on Today at 02:20:16 PM"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity. 

not necessarily, depends on how "people" are being grouped.

Quote from: BadApple on Today at 02:18:46 PM

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 02:04:43 PMYou're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying pointing out bad things members of that forum do isnt' a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

Is your purpose to clearly communicate your thoughts or is it to throw thoughts out there so that you get a negative response?

Leading question with unnecessarily limited options.

The purpose of my original message that the Pundit reprinted was to clearly lay out a contract with fans--which was clearly laid out to that audience.

The purpose of my conversation here afterward is to:

1-Correct misinformation for the benefit of third parties reading the thread
and
2-Clearly identify for third parties reading which members of the forum speaking are responsible for spreading misinformation or otherwise untrustworthy.

It looks as though you've made the naïve mistake of assuming that just because someone's messages are responses to you in a public place that the primary audience is you.

If you raise a concern, I'll address it--but not primarily for your benefit (I assume most people here will never ever admit to being persuaded of anything that doesn't fit their schtick). I am addressing it for the benefit of people who are reading the exchange but not participating.

Alternately, maybe you didn't make that mistake but--giving in to a common nerd tendency to try to exhibit superiority--your reaction to seeing your takeaway was wrong wasn't to go "Sorry I got that wrong" but instead to turn it around and go "You are bad at communication, that must be why I got it wrong". This is a common tactic.

Quote from: strollofturtle on Today at 02:20:16 PM

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 01:54:42 PMRepeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity.  That is literally what it means to say that.

Feel free to retract your statements if you are admitting that you were inaccurately using language and thus (inadvertently presumably) spreading misinformation.

If you feel I made an inaccurate "most nerds" statement, you can quote it and I will evaluate it and see if I was imprecise.

The evaluation of most nerds.
Somehow it sounds... so good in my head?

Anyway, I'm happy to read through Zak's clarifications.

Quote from: Zak S on Today at 02:25:02 PMIf you feel I made an inaccurate "most nerds" statement, you can quote it and I will evaluate it and see if I was imprecise.

The exact post I quoted originally, #223. But you know that. At this point the logical conclusion is that you are being disingenuous. As is your wont, it simply is a contradiction of your stated purpose.