Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Which is why there is a need for people to question the misinformation.

To prevent people from acting on misinformation.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:34:57 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:27:26 PMYou are literally giving them precise instructions that they must follow to get the book.

Yes, as does nearly any entity that distributes books. "Enter your credit card number here" etc.

QuoteAs far as saying nice things about you or your products, that would be pretty much assumed because it would be really weird if you asked your fans who want to get your $1000 book

Excluded middle fallacy:

Someone could simply post things like "Is anyone else playing Shadowrun" and fulfill the requirement.

QuoteREGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR REAL INTENTIONS WERE ...people will wonder

Yes I am not asking for your PR advice, I am just pointing out that this thread contains misinformation.

QuoteThe word "brigading", at the top of the original post, was not my word. It was a word from the person who sent me this.

Which you reproduced.

At any rate the important thing is:

You grasp and are communicating that you know it isn't brigading and you grasp and are communicating that I didn't ask anyone to say nice things about me or my workin exchange for anything.

Thank you so much for clarifying that.

If it ever comes up in the future, we know that you've clarified it.

Let me clarify again: I do not "know it isn't brigading", because in the original message you DO NOT STATE what further comments you will want people to post when your "ZAK NEWS UPDATE" comes out. I do suspect it is not "brigading" in the sense of a concerted attack against another person, and I suspect the anonymous person who sent me this email may have really meant something like "astroturfing" more than "brigading". But then again, I don't know if that OP, who obviously was someone who received this message from you, had also potentially received other messages from me. For the record I have had no conversation with this person apart from them sending me the message above, which I reposted in total. You have here suggested that it was not for the purpose of brigading, and I have no reason in particular to doubt that.

Again, I did not say at any point that you told people to say nice things about you in exchange for this $1000 book, but I predicted that people would be apt to think that future nice posts about you might be related to this exchange, because you wrote an email giving people precise instructions of precise websites they should join and how many posts and or comments to make on them and when (or at least, by what time period). I have to wonder how you would not have seen the potential risk of that.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Who said that?

These two:

Well, since you are so into correcting misinformation, please identify where I claimed that you were the person about who nice things must be said?  I never mentioned you in that post.  You might have assumed I was talking about you specifically (perhaps a guilty conscience?), but that was never stated in my post anywhere.  You have accused me of false claims without any direct textual evidence at all.  I stand by my statement, and will expand on it, "Anyone who must bribe others to say nice things about them is pathetic."  I leave it to you to decide if that applies to you.  And I await your correction of your misinformation that I said anything about you specifically in that quoted text.

I have directly said that your sycophants on this thread are pathetic.  And I stand by that, too.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:43:13 PMLet me clarify again: I do not "know it isn't brigading", because in the original message you DO NOT STATE what further comments you will want people to post when your "ZAK NEWS UPDATE" comes out.

The text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

QuoteAgain, I did not say at any point that you told people to say nice things about you in exchange for this $1000 book

This is your caim about the meaning of your statement. My claim is different.

{quote]I have to wonder how you would not have seen the potential risk of that.
[/quote]

You're assuming the risk bothers me.

Literally any time I do anything that works out in the RPG sphere I get attacked due to the whole situaiton described here: https://archive.is/0Nv3c .

Of course I saw that risk. I chose to take it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:43:13 PMLet me clarify again: I do not "know it isn't brigading", because in the original message you DO NOT STATE what further comments you will want people to post when your "ZAK NEWS UPDATE" comes out.

The text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

QuoteAgain, I did not say at any point that you told people to say nice things about you in exchange for this $1000 book

This is your caim about the meaning of your statement. My claim is different.

QuoteI have to wonder how you would not have seen the potential risk of that.

You're assuming the risk bothers me.

Literally any time I do anything that works out in the RPG sphere I get attacked due to the whole situation described here: https://archive.is/0Nv3c .

Of course I saw that risk. I chose to take it.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:29:18 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

How is he designating hostile? Does he just mean "there are people there who don't like me"?

As I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

People can post what they want within the boundaries of legality, and the very basic rules created here. TheRPGsite is a platform not a publisher. theRPGsite is not responsible for the statement of any individual who posts on here. This website is explicitly presented as a free-speech site.

If you find someone is posting off-topic, or you think someone's actions amount to harassing you (repeatedly going to threads where you post and making low or no-content insults or abuse), or if they dox you in any way, you can definitely report it to me (a DM is probably the best way to do that) and if I feel it reaches those standards I'll adjudicate it.

However, I find that perhaps your notions of what constitutes "misinformation" is becoming as fuzzy as it is for many leftists, amounting to "they were mean to me" or "they said something I didn't like". Like, for example, pointing out that people are going to take the details of your little plan and think the worst of it is NOT "misinformation", it was in fact a prediction that almost immediately became true.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

As far as posting nice things about Zak is concerned.

I saw his art. It is amazing. This is irrefutable. Saatchi also agree.
I read some of his books. They also are amazing. The industry awarded him. They also agree.

I read a lot of his arguments online through several years. To summarise, about how the problem with the online d&d community is trolls, misinformation and defamation.
I respect that because it is righteous. I respect him for doing it.
I was disgusted how many people did not ask to see evidence before hating on Zak.
As it happened the court saw the evidence and backed Zak.
I looked into that to find out it is true.
This is not sycophantic.
This is respect for someone who has been through so much difficult crap for the purpose of establishing a voice of reason in the community for a game we all love.
I am not writing this and defending Zak for a copy of his book. Awesome though it does look.
I am doing this because of respect for those who are doing amazing and positive things with their lives and for the d&d community, despite the ignorance, jealousy and anger all around.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:37:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:31:14 PMA FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

By that metric, basically nothing anyone has to ask for is free. "Buy one get one free" things aren't "free" in this alien version of English you just concocted, nor are "Free if you stop by on Sundays" things, for example.

It's called capitalism. "Buy one get one free" is not free. You don't get the free one without paying for the first one, meaning that what you're actually getting is two items at half-price.
"Free on Sundays" could theoretically be actually free, in the sense that it requires no work FOR you, but if you said "free on Sundays if you join 10 websites and write several posts and then later react to something I wrote" is work.

Just like if someone said "we'll give you this timeshare FOR FREE if you find three other people and get them to sign up", you're not actually getting something for free, they've gotten you to work as a salesman for them in exchange for a timeshare slot instead of cash.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:54:38 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

This forum has rules which are not being enforced. The trolls are allowed to do it hate crimes here even in breach of the T&C

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Misinformation (along with Dis- and Mal-) is a bullshit leftist term invented by people who couldn't actually defend their actual positions so they just label what they can't actually argue against to try and keep people from seeing it.

You want accountability for what someone else said, then do it your damn self by posting something that contradicts the statements. If you can't defend your own ideas, then your ideas are most likely crap (or you're bad at communicating, but if they are good ideas then someone else will pick up the ball and run with it).

You're just a pack of censorious jerks who can't even defend their own positions so wants someone to use their authority to shut up anyone who points out the holes in your positions.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:56:07 PMThis forum has rules which are not being enforced. The trolls are allowed to do it hate crimes here even in breach of the T&C

Please show us in the forum rules where the bad posts touched you.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:37:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:31:14 PMA FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

By that metric, basically nothing anyone has to ask for is free. "Buy one get one free" things aren't "free" in this alien version of English you just concocted, nor are "Free if you stop by on Sundays" things, for example.

It's called capitalism. "Buy one get one free" is not free. You don't get the free one without paying for the first one, meaning that what you're actually getting is two items at half-price.
"Free on Sundays" could theoretically be actually free, in the sense that it requires no work FOR you, but if you said "free on Sundays if you join 10 websites and write several posts and then later react to something I wrote" is work.

Just like if someone said "we'll give you this timeshare FOR FREE if you find three other people and get them to sign up", you're not actually getting something for free, they've gotten you to work as a salesman for them in exchange for a timeshare slot instead of cash.

Great, then start a thread about how the supermarket is lying to you.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:41:00 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Which is why there is a need for people to question the misinformation.

To prevent people from acting on misinformation.

We strongly encourage debate here. If you think people are misrepresenting Zak you are welcome to say it. If Zak had 100 fans who wanted to be on theRPGsite and respond to things they thought were false or unfair about Zak there would be no problem with that. I'd hope they'd post on other subjects while they were around but even if they didn't want to, that's still not in violation of the rules, as long as they aren't sockpuppets (literal, as in it's just Zak with 100 accounts, or virtual, as in 'astroturfed' statements written by zak but posted by someone else, WITHOUT being attributed to Zak as his words and not your own). As long as its neither of those things, and its topical to the discussion thread (no showing up out of nowhere on a totally unrelated thread to post about how someone somewhere was mean to Zak), you won't have a problem here.

That's about a million times more fair than places like RPGnet. Its the open town square of debate.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:54:38 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

It's almost impossible for any moderator to get it right all the time, but on theRPGsite there are pretty clear rules about what you can or can't do. If someone posts pornography they're banned, if they post copyrighted material or links to download copyrighted material they're banned. If they repeatedly intentionally derail threads as a hostile action they're banned. If they reveal private information with hostile intent against another user they're banned. If they repeatedly follow you around to every thread you post on just for the purpose of attacking you, with the result that they derail the topic of the thread, they would probably be sanctioned, and if they violated the terms of that sanction (for example "do not post on this thread again", or "do not post on any thread started by Zak") they would be banned.
If they just insult you, or disagree with you, or interpret something differently than you, they probably won't be banned.

You can even make a post that explicitly states in the title that you only want positive statements, if you're talking about an RPG product. Of course someone else could then open another thread where they could talk about negative statements about the same RPG product.