Quote from: Benoist;621673Pushing further, however, the idea that the Mythos is confined to a set of specific creatures or Entities or IPs contained within this or that story, this or that supplement, basically demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the Mythos itself. It's mindbogglingly dumb. On its face. Only morons who bought way too many Cthulhu plushes would buy into it.

It is odd that even going way back there were Lovecraftian pastiche stories that sought to do nothing more than detail the family tree of Hastur and add in Cthulhu's second cousin twice-removed. Awful fan fiction before such a thing had a name.
Compare that to some of the works that Ramsey Campbell, Karl Edward Wagner, Thomas Ligotti, Michael Cisco, etc. have done on those themes... terrifying stuff that, while thoroughly in that realm somehow manages to not run lists of entities and old books and other Mythos touchstones.

I'm not sure how I'd put Campbell's 'The Voice Of The Beach' into RPG terms... but Ligotti's 'Purity' gave me some nasty ideas that will turn up next time I run COC.

Walmsley's Stealing Cthulhu goes back to the sources and presents unique takes on the Mythos, plenty enough to freshen the palates of gamers jaded by repeated seaside dinners of Deep One calamari. (Review here.)

The method is also presented so that you can apply it to stories that Walmsley doesn't have the space to examine.

Quote from: RPGPundit;621534The recent death of one of the guiding lights of the CoC RPG got me thinking... is Cthulhu (who has evolved to being the source of cutesy "hello kitty" drawings and plushies) completely spent as an adventuring concept..

Yes, as a source of cosmic horror, it is done (and how I hate those geek chic products!). It still has some potential in other game styles, but it is no longer scary.

Quote from: RPGPundit;621534.or is there something that could be done with a mythos campaign (be it fantasy, medieval, roman, 1920s, modern, futuristic or other) that would still actually be novel?

If so, what?

Put it on ice for 40 years until it becomes effective again. It will never happen, though.

Quote from: RPGPundit;621534The recent death of one of the guiding lights of the CoC RPG got me thinking... is Cthulhu (who has evolved to being the source of cutesy "hello kitty" drawings and plushies) completely spent as an adventuring concept.. .or is there something that could be done with a mythos campaign (be it fantasy, medieval, roman, 1920s, modern, futuristic or other) that would still actually be novel?

If so, what?

RPGPundit

Downton Abbey!!!

...I'll get my coat.

I think you can get plenty of mileage still if you take the essential premises of the Mythos - humanity is insignificant in the cosmic order of things and there are forces out there which can squish us like bugs if they notice us, true appreciation of wider reality outside of the island of calm we exist in brings insanity, that sort of thing - but ditch the specifics. The standard Mythos monsters and Old Ones and deities and all the rest have been wheeled out so often that all the surprise is gone. Instead, ditch all that stuff, come up with your own mythology, and go to town with it. It worked for Ramsey Campbell in his writing - many of his later dips into cosmic horror like The Grin of the Dark haven't involved any specific namedropping of Mythos touchstones, for instance - and it can work in gaming.

In fact, arguably these days it's necessary for a good CoC game. If the thrill of uncovering mysteries and the fear of the unknown is going to be communicated to the players you really don't want to have them working out what's going on OOC long before they do IC, and using a homebrewed mythology is a big help there.

Quote from: Opaopajr;621555Basically it'd need something new becoming culturally popular to spawn an RPG.

Charles Stross, surely.

I'm not sure I get the OP. I see no reason to stop playing CoC because Cthulhu is muscling into mainstream pop territory or deconstructed or the object of satire.

As for publishing your "X, plus Cthulhu!" game, well, the formula is not exactly the most original thing anymore, though if you dream of publishing your Ninjas vs. Cthulhu game, who am I to judge. The more the merrier, I say. Publish it and I'll vote with my wallet.

Quote from: Benoist;621673No. Fuck no. Of course not. That's absurd.

Pushing further, however, the idea that the Mythos is confined to a set of specific creatures or Entities or IPs contained within this or that story, this or that supplement, basically demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the Mythos itself. It's mindbogglingly dumb. On its face. Only morons who bought way too many Cthulhu plushes would buy into it.

Agreed on both counts. I have yet to check out AS&SH, though.

Quote from: misterguignol;621662Have you looked at Rafael Chandler's Scorn or Spite?

Better still, have you seen Mr. Chandler's OSRIC conversion of the Barkeresque demons from his Pandemonium RPGs? I am sorely tempted to pick it up.

Also, Kult. OOP and nearly impossible to track down, but our go-to game for Hellraiser-like horror back in the day.

To answer the question a few times:

1. CoC has timeless play value in the way Casablanca has timeless entertainment value. Especially true of the very best of the commercial campaigns (I loved Fungi from Yuggoth).

2. The Mythos is a particular sort of nihilistic horror about nasty things that happen to humans caused by uncaring forces beyond their comprehension or control, and the way humans react to them. It's not a monster manual.

3. New authors are finding new ways to approach the mythos, from the aforementioned Graham Walmsley to John Snead's Eldrich Skies (haven't read it, but it appears to cover the alternative space travel aspect of the Mythos which I find very appealing). Also, LotFP.

4. The capital-M Mythos is all CoC. The small-m mythos is the cosmic horror approach to horror, and arguably goes beyond Lovecraft, Derleth, Lumley etc. The sense of dread, of unpicking ordered reality and finding something vast and dangerous and amoral--that will always have an appeal.

5. And if you can't game with a straight face any more, there's always parody, such as Cabin In The Woods

Quote from: Warthur;621735using a homebrewed mythology is a big help there.

I whipped up a homebrew mythology Mythos-inspired cosm for Torg: Dharkuul, The Xenohorror Reality.

I'm not entirely satisfied with it, but it does take Mythos-inspired RPG's in a different direction.

Quote from: misterguignol;621662Have you looked at Rafael Chandler's Scorn or Spite?

No, got some links? Interested!

I'm also a fan of the old Whispering Vault.

I think the mythos is a flavor of horror that is a bit like tolkein. So it is so deeply ingrained in gaming (whether because it is a natural fit or its just been there for so long in the community is its own discussion) that I think these variations we keep seeing could go on for some time (though I think the combo of cthulhu+X=success will wind down soon, if it already hasn't). That said, nothing like classic Cthulhu.

Quote from: jhkim;621594I think this happens to any horror genre as soon as you put it into the context of gaming.  This happened as soon as people picked of the original Call of Cthulhu in the 1980s, and if you start a Clive Barker horror game, then pretty much instantly the same players will be joking about kinky monster sex and other such.

It's not just gamers, pretty much any 'horror' will be reduced to a joke by people in 10 min, its how most people cope with it.

Quote from: jhkim;621594I think this happens to any horror genre as soon as you put it into the context of gaming.  This happened as soon as people picked of the original Call of Cthulhu in the 1980s, and if you start a Clive Barker horror game, then pretty much instantly the same players will be joking about kinky monster sex and other such.  Gamers joke about what they play.  

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I think horror is one of those things where you really will be dissappointed if you have high expectations all the time. I am a horror movie buff and if you watch enough horror movies, it is pretty hrd to be scared by them all the time. Itis a bit of a two way street and takes a willing lowering of the viewer's defenses. Its great if a movie scares me, but I don't need that to enjoy them. And I would be frustrated if I expected every horror movie to frighten. Same with RPG horror. I can enjoy a game of cthulhu or ravenloft, even if I am laughing at some of the cheese. Sometimes this even helps set me up for being spoooked.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;621766I think horror is one of those things where you really will be dissappointed if you have high expectations all the time. I am a horror movie buff and if you watch enough horror movies, it is pretty hrd to be scared by them all the time. Itis a bit of a two way street and takes a willing lowering of the viewer's defenses. Its great if a movie scares me, but I don't need that to enjoy them. And I would be frustrated if I expected every horror movie to frighten. Same with RPG horror. I can enjoy a game of cthulhu or ravenloft, even if I am laughing at some of the cheese. Sometimes this even helps set me up for being spoooked.

I agree with this.

And anyway, I never thought that Lovecraft's real strength was "horror".

He generates great atmosphere and a sense of deep time. Also, the idea of human magical traditions as cargo cult alien science is a very useful one both for fiction and gaming.

I think a big strength of the mythos is that it's compatible with many different genres, so it is a kind of spice of which you can add a dash or two to a swords and sorcery game, or a modern spies game (hello Delta Green!), or a hard boiled 30s detective game and etc. Sure it can be overdone (you don't need Cthulhu in everything), but works well when judiciously used.

Plush Cthulhu dolls and the various other mythos jokes never much bothered me.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;621753No, got some links? Interested!

I'm also a fan of the old Whispering Vault.

Scorn: http://www.rpgnow.com/product/107651/Scorn-%28Playtest-edition%29
Spite: http://www.rpgnow.com/product/61050/Spite%3A-The-Second-Book-of-Pandemonium

Both free as Chandler has released them OGL, and compatible with each other.

[edit] For reference, Scorn used to be called "Dread" and was eventually renamed so as to stop causing confusion with the Jenga "Dread."