The recent death of one of the guiding lights of the CoC RPG got me thinking... is Cthulhu (who has evolved to being the source of cutesy "hello kitty" drawings and plushies) completely spent as an adventuring concept.. .or is there something that could be done with a mythos campaign (be it fantasy, medieval, roman, 1920s, modern, futuristic or other) that would still actually be novel?

If so, what?

RPGPundit

I feel that, in as far as horror gaming is concerned, that Cthulhu and the Mythos is something of a joke.  This is as opposed to current writers using the mythos for non-RPG writing, which from what I understand is very vibrant in the fan scene.  Whenever I hear gamers joke about insanity, squamous horrors and how many Investigators Cthulhu can eat in a round, I kind of cringe.

I've always wanted to see an RPG exploration of later horror genres, such as Clive Barkers early work (Tale of the Hellbound Heart, Cabal).  Old World of Darkness tried to touch some of this but become more about supernatural adventure as opposed to stark horror.  I'd also like to see expansion of some of the work in the hobby which emulates newer horror genres (J-Horror like The Ring, etc).  I know there have been a few stabs at more modern work (Kult, Unknown Armies), but these are few and far between.

Newer work in the Mythos I hope would make use of the principles of newer horror genres while retaining the Mythos' own unique flavor and vibe.  The Mythos was always changing and being added to, and I see no reason for gaming not to take care of this crowd-sourcing of the dark fantastical.

I think the thing to do, is to take the concepts and build from there - hostile universe, the emptiness of realizing there are powers as far above you as you are above insects, etc - and start there, rather than "Now, what can I have the Cthulhu cultists do this week?". You can build a lot on that chassis, without needing to go down the "how many tentacles?" route.

Seeing as Pundit is a Cracked fan, I'd suggest reading John Dies At The End for one example of what you could do; cosmic and body horror, with dick jokes, but it all works together brilliantly. The Laundry Files stuff also seems to work pretty well, although I've only read one book and played the RPG, so it could all fall apart later on.

It'd require a more prevalent reading of current Mythos-related explorations in the speculative fiction market. Basically it'd need something new becoming culturally popular to spawn an RPG.

Most RPGs tend to have an Appendix N in mind during development. What sort of modern cult classics can you name that'd expand the genre?

At the easiest I'd say re-packaging of CoC & Ghostbusters would be perfect with the current "ghost/cryptoid/ancient aliens explorers" popularity.

The easiest meld of that subcultural popularity to RPGs? Either: a) blur the line between real life/fiction, so instead of CoC Mythos you use currently explored Earth mysteries, or b) Reality TV explorers the rpg. One could easily do both combined.

Edit: To make it strictly CoC? You'd have to re-skin current mysteries as Mythos, which CoC has been doing since forever. Easiest then would be Reality TV CoC.

It could have a combat minigame built for mounting tension (without gimmicks though... I'm talking more about carefully calibrating everything from reloading times and clip sizes to how you handle light sources to wounds here).

It could focus on the investigative aspect, even eschewing the really horrific side of the horror most of the time. I think there are likely better (or at least other) ways of doing this than the Gumshoe route.

It could give more thorough rules for occultists fighting on (nearly) equal footing with the monsters, or something BRPDish.

I think there's a lot that could be done.

Since speculative romance is the hottest thing currently, I just realized you could do an embedded Cold War version, with varying degrees of horror/comedy. Anything can be done, but it'll definitely not be the teen heartthrob type of love, more an ugly love. Could do things from the growing horror of discovering your spouse is a child of a Deep One, and torn between love and revulsion, or comedy like ALF, where you get "My Life with Mi-Go!"

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;621537I feel that, in as far as horror gaming is concerned, that Cthulhu and the Mythos is something of a joke.  This is as opposed to current writers using the mythos for non-RPG writing, which from what I understand is very vibrant in the fan scene.  Whenever I hear gamers joke about insanity, squamous horrors and how many Investigators Cthulhu can eat in a round, I kind of cringe.

I think this happens to any horror genre as soon as you put it into the context of gaming.  This happened as soon as people picked of the original Call of Cthulhu in the 1980s, and if you start a Clive Barker horror game, then pretty much instantly the same players will be joking about kinky monster sex and other such.  Gamers joke about what they play.  

I think there is still plenty of room for Lovecraftian horror.  In my campaign a few years ago, I delved more into Lovecraft's common themes of more personal horror like tainted ancestry (i.e. the Innsmouth look).  This is still something I don't see in Lovecraft games, where the horrors are alien things to be fought.

Ok, i admit, most of the Mythos as is do not suit me, but by now, CoC is essentially an institution in the horror genre,  so it would very well lend itself to "play fast and loose" with.

Scenarios i find possible:
* Cultists think the Mythos is real, and tries to revive Cthulhu.
The Players play some "fringe team" or NCIS-style types aiming to capture them.... or kill them.
* Like above, but the Cultists manage to summon something that isn't Cthulhu, but it is "bad enough".
To mess it up, it may even look like a small version of "Big C" ....
* Like the above, but the Cultists do not belive in the Mythos ... but manages to summon "Big C" anyway .... or something looking the part.
* FBI-style investigators and a SWATeam investigates and area prepared to meet a homicidal cult ... thriller-style, but it may or may not turn into horror as per the examples above.
* "The King in Yellow" is made into a movie ....
* Let the Players play Paranormals themselves, both trying to stop malign portals from opening and gruesome beings from murdering, at the same time as they're either keeping up a pretense of "normality", or is living among subcultures such as Otherkin and similar.
* Like the above Paranormals, but the Players may also play as regular humans that may or may not belive that they are Paranormals .... to begin with.

Quote from: jhkim;621594I think this happens to any horror genre as soon as you put it into the context of gaming.  This happened as soon as people picked of the original Call of Cthulhu in the 1980s, and if you start a Clive Barker horror game, then pretty much instantly the same players will be joking about kinky monster sex and other such.  Gamers joke about what they play.

This is pretty much how I see it as well.
For one thing, I won't even try to play horror RPGs with players who are not fans of horror. They do not enjoy being scared, do not want to be scared... instead they subvert the scares at every turn by making jokes.
The fellows I currently game with, they quote Terry Pratchett and Monty Python and The Princess Bride a lot... but I don't think any of them have ever read Lovecraft or Clive Barker.

I also think Cthulhu itself should pretty much NEVER turn up in-game. Most of the COC games I've run have been much less epic than Masks Of Nyarlathotep... more along the lines satan/witch cult films like City Of The Dead, The Crimson Cult and Spellbinder.

QuoteI think there is still plenty of room for Lovecraftian horror.  In my campaign a few years ago, I delved more into Lovecraft's common themes of more personal horror like tainted ancestry (i.e. the Innsmouth look).  This is still something I don't see in Lovecraft games, where the horrors are alien things to be fought.

Agreed. Too often 'horror' games are just seen as a new set of monsters to be killed. This was one of my main gripes with Kult... that despite the disturbing cosmology and implications and just plain weirdness it's mechanical focus seemed surprisingly heavy on gun porn and combat.
Maybe 'horror' and RPGs aren't such a good match. I love COC and have gotten scares as both player and GM with it... but I think the wargame aspects need to be downplayed to get at that sort of atmosphere. It's less about the rules than it is the people playing the game IMO.

Quote from: Simlasa;621641Maybe 'horror' and RPGs aren't such a good match.

Most people playing RPG's like the adventuring aspects: meeting evil, killing it, and taking its stuff. It's fun.

Not all people enjoy horror as much. As you note, its down to the players.

Thus, the rule: Like drama and romance, horror works best as a light addition to an adventure. A touch of flavor, not the whole meal. Soy sauce, in other words.

This is true for most people, though not true for all.

Quote from: RPGPundit;621534The recent death of one of the guiding lights of the CoC RPG got me thinking... is Cthulhu (who has evolved to being the source of cutesy "hello kitty" drawings and plushies) completely spent as an adventuring concept.. .or is there something that could be done with a mythos campaign (be it fantasy, medieval, roman, 1920s, modern, futuristic or other) that would still actually be novel?

If so, what?

RPGPundit

i think that there's still promise. i ran a well received game of aging pulp heroes (the spider, the shadow, doc savage, etc) mentoring new heroes in the 1950s who would take up their mantles to combat the red menace and specifically cthulhu-esque threats.

I think there's plenty of room for cosmic horror, albeit perhaps not in the form of Cthulhu. I think that Lovecraft's works have become parodied just as much as they are aped, and have been devalued somewhat in the process.

That doesn't mean they can't be funny, though.

That said, games like Delta Green offer a really good take on the Cthulhu Mythos.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;621537I've always wanted to see an RPG exploration of later horror genres, such as Clive Barkers early work (Tale of the Hellbound Heart, Cabal).  

Have you looked at Rafael Chandler's Scorn or Spite?

Cthulhu itself has been a bit overmined, as have many more 'pop culture'-favoured parts of the Mythos.  The City Under Waves Where He Sleeps wasn't honestly that great of a setting schtick to start with, and less so now when we've dropped atomic bombs down there, had NuclearCthulhu stomp Japan in a bad rubber suit, and then blew him up again.  When you drop the names themselves out of the picture, however?

There's still a lot left undone.  The metaphors of alien, incomprehensible, and tremendously powerful entities only becomes more compelling over time, and are underexplored in active horror settings.  ((I'd argue that no one's truly achieved that nominal theme of the work: it's tricky to write or work with alien forces of nature beyond human ken or impact, and as a result we tend to have the viewpoint character die or go made before Cthulhu does his schtick, or build giant robots to deck Cthulhu in the snooze.  There's more of that in Eclipse Phase than even much of the original Mythos, and not much of it in EP.))

Quote from: RPGPundit;621534The recent death of one of the guiding lights of the CoC RPG got me thinking... is Cthulhu (who has evolved to being the source of cutesy "hello kitty" drawings and plushies) completely spent as an adventuring concept...

No. Fuck no. Of course not. That's absurd.

Quoteor is there something that could be done with a mythos campaign (be it fantasy, medieval, roman, 1920s, modern, futuristic or other) that would still actually be novel?

If so, what?

RPGPundit

Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea.

Pushing further, however, the idea that the Mythos is confined to a set of specific creatures or Entities or IPs contained within this or that story, this or that supplement, basically demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the Mythos itself. It's mindbogglingly dumb. On its face. Only morons who bought way too many Cthulhu plushes would buy into it.