Well it sounds like you want to raise the dead on something that is effectively dead and impossible to raise.

The IP's are owned by people that have no desire (apparently) to continue to market and publish them. There are obviously reasons for that - be that lack of interest, lack of ROI, etc.

There is a level of entitlement to those IP's I find you're fetishizing in a pathological fashion - *and I get it* - but I also find that you're placing an unholy amount of desire for "authenticity" which is a complete illusion.

Just because the word "Alternity" is slapped on something, and the IP holder gave you the complete total endorsement, doesn't mean that your version of "Alternity" would be any better than your "Alternate Reality Alternity" you could make on your own.

In fact- the D&D Edition wars should be proof of that. Marketing is what most designers take for granted. And today - that also means, unfortunately, the reality of Social Media being part of that equation, where once upon a time when literally all of these IP's were created, it most certainly wasn't. Each new edition kept and lost players, but the lack of marketing on those respective editions, outside of Pathfinder (as a flavor of 3.x) have never been more than putting up a walled garden around an IDEA. And that's not BAD.

The problem here is you demand specific IP's to be active again, against the wills of their owners. Well I want Marvel Comics to be what it was during the Jim Shooter era... and that simply is never going to happen.

What could happen is - you could go that route of stealing someone's IP and take those unnecessary risks if you intend to profit from it. Or you could just put all that energy and passion in to reimagining something new and infect others with that passion, because you're selling yourself short if you think that new IP's aren't attractive. It's all about the execution.

This is the realization that the D&D Fantasy player-base still has yet to learn: the system is NOT the game. The settings, overt or implied, are what has held people long term. Whether that's your homebrewed setting, or Dragonlance, or the Realms, or Greyhawk, Mystara, Darksun, blah blah blah... people that fell out of the hobby did so on their own, likely for the fact that they played in shallow adventure-based campaigns, but those that came back likely came back because *someone* got them to engage more deeply.

Those that never left, found means to continue the IP's of their choice forward. That's YOU (and me and many others here). Take that knowledge you have and run with it. Leave the IP's in the graveyards locked away in their mausoleums because those owners don't give a shit about you or anyone else here. But if you try to profit off their IP's, it might be an entirely different adventure you end up on...

We've been over this already. I would not be making spiritual successors if I thought the dead IPs I liked, or just thought were interesting enough to run with, had a snowball's chance in hell of coming back. That's the point of making a spiritual successor. I'm the last person you need to lecture about this. I'm well aware of the legal issues and I'm interested in settings, not rules.

Right now my main problem is trying to be close enough to retain what fans liked about the originals (alien races, stellar nations, cryptic alliances, etc), while changing just enough to avoid opening myself to litigation. I don't know where the dividing line is because I'm not trying to replicate conventional plots with characters and such. I'm trying to replicate lore. Trying to file off the serial numbers at the bare minimum is mentally exhausting for me. It doesn't engage my creative muscles, it's just tedious.

I shouldn't need to waste my time filing off serial numbers to avoid the risk of litigation. Copyright lasts far too long: it should last 20-30 years at most, not over a century! These IPs are dead and never coming back, so it serves no purpose to lock them behind copyright and prevent fans from preserving and remixing it. But the legal system is what it is and all attempts to fix this stupid shit have failed, so I'll just do what I can.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 05, 2023, 03:19:22 PM
I shouldn't need to waste my time filing off serial numbers to avoid the risk of litigation. Copyright lasts far too long: it should last 20-30 years at most, not over a century!

Not true.  Since it is decided as a democracy they last as long as the people decide.  Unless, you think you should be the dictator of the USA?

Quote from: Scooter on September 05, 2023, 03:33:00 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 05, 2023, 03:19:22 PM
I shouldn't need to waste my time filing off serial numbers to avoid the risk of litigation. Copyright lasts far too long: it should last 20-30 years at most, not over a century!

Not true.  Since it is decided as a democracy they last as long as the people decide.  Unless, you think you should be the dictator of the USA?

Wrong, IP law in the US has been decided by Disney's deep pockets for DECADES now.

Saddly many other countries mimic whatever the US makes.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 05, 2023, 04:16:17 PM


Wrong, IP law in the US has been decided by Disney's deep pockets for DECADES now.

Saddly many other countries mimic whatever the US makes.

Wrong. If people want it changed they just need to contact their reps.  I have worked on the Hill.  If even a TINY minority of people in most house districts call their Rep about it it WILL be changed ASAP.  MOST constituents don't care though. So, the MAJORITY has spoken or refused to speak.  That's how a democracy works.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

Copyright term limits were never voted on by the general public. That's not how laws are passed. It was legislated by the government after Disney lobbied them multiple times.

What sane person votes to extend copyright to last for 90 years after the author has died? What purpose does that serve?

When copyright was first legislated, terms lasted 14 years because nobody needed them to last longer. Due to Disney lobbying, it has been extended to last for 90 years after death or 120 years for corporate owned works. This was done only so that Disney could retain ownership of the Steamboat Willy cartoon, not because it helped the general public.

The downside is that these terms make it impossible to preserve the overwhelming majority of works created since the 1920s. Copies are lost or destroyed before they can be preserved. It's ridiculous!

Some US state representatives have proposed laws to reduce the terms, but nothing has passed yet.

Quote from: Scooter on September 05, 2023, 04:38:50 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 05, 2023, 04:16:17 PM


Wrong, IP law in the US has been decided by Disney's deep pockets for DECADES now.

Saddly many other countries mimic whatever the US makes.

Wrong. If people want it changed they just need to contact their reps.  I have worked on the Hill.  If even a TINY minority of people in most house districts call their Rep about it it WILL be changed ASAP.  MOST constituents don't care though. So, the MAJORITY has spoken or refused to speak.  That's how a democracy works.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

Translation: "I said one thing and when proven wrong instead of recognizing my error I now postulate an hypotethical that nobody can prove or disprove"

Quote from: Scooter on August 21, 2023, 05:51:49 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 21, 2023, 05:29:07 PM

Quote from: Scooter on August 21, 2023, 02:33:47 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 21, 2023, 02:28:06 PM
Games I'd like to see again:

Star Frontiers (under that name)
Boot Hill
Top Secret
Gamma World

So, go play them.  They all exist.  What is the F'ing problem?

I'd like to see them organized better, bound better, and supported with ongoing new material and electronic character generators and other stuff most modern RPGs get.

If that stops you from playing then you don't want to play them very much

I am an adult with a family and full time job and multiple good hobbies and friends and responsibilities. My free time for playing RPGs is much more limited than it used to be, and games which provide more support are the ones I am going to consider given those realities. It's not about desire, it's about time management.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 05, 2023, 06:31:20 PM
Copyright term limits were never voted on by the general public.

You're not the sharpest crayon in the box are you?

Quote from: Scooter on September 05, 2023, 03:33:00 PM
Not true.  Since it is decided as a democracy they last as long as the people decide.  Unless, you think you should be the dictator of the USA?

People are allowed to think a law is bad, last time I checked.

IP law is not decided by the US alone, but by multiple international treaties, trade agreements, etc.

It is similar in most of the world.

(I'm against IP on principle. Anyone is welcome to pirate my books, although I'd appreciate a sale if you can afford it! )

(also, "the people decides" hahahahahahahahah)

Copyright was originally invented to protect authors from piracy. The government intended that, after being granted this monopoly for a limited time to profit, the author would then pay back by giving their work to the public domain. Economically, there's no point to having copyright last more than two decades. The overwhelming majority of works aren't profitable after that point, and trademark law still protects names and likenesses indefinitely if used consistently. For example, no corpo wants to touch the works of Edgar Rich Burroughs because his estate maintains the trademarks.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 05, 2023, 08:40:55 PM
For example, no corpo wants to touch the works of Edgar Rich Burroughs because his estate maintains the trademarks.

Wrong.  Tarzan is a trademark but the stories are past copyright.  So the entire story could be made into a movie by simply changing name of the character.  If the story was compelling enough it would be used

Quote from: Scooter on September 05, 2023, 09:14:42 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 05, 2023, 08:40:55 PM
For example, no corpo wants to touch the works of Edgar Rich Burroughs because his estate maintains the trademarks.

Wrong.  Tarzan is a trademark but the stories are past copyright.  So the entire story could be made into a movie by simply changing name of the character.  If the story was compelling enough it would be used

For someone constantly berating others as idiots, your reading comprehension isn't great.

Re-read what Box said... no one really wants to touch Tarzan as a commercial property because the ERB estate maintains trademarks on all the big names.

He wasn't arguing you couldn't use the stories because of copyright; he's arguing that because you can't slap the name "Tarzan" on it without paying a licensing fee to the ERB estate, few are interested in turning his public domain books into films or television.

Similarly, if Action Comics #1 became public domain tomorrow; sure you could use Superman, Clark Kent, Lois Lane and the Daily Star in your works; but you couldn't slap "Superman" on the cover, nor depict the hero in his traditional attire (that's trademarked).

In short, public domain Action Comics #1 is near worthless without the Superman (and associated) trademarks.

One of the main reasons you see certain villains return every half dozen years and various minor characters get limited series is just to maintain the trademarks.

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 06, 2023, 09:32:50 AM

Quote from: Scooter on September 05, 2023, 09:14:42 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 05, 2023, 08:40:55 PM
For example, no corpo wants to touch the works of Edgar Rich Burroughs because his estate maintains the trademarks.

Wrong.  Tarzan is a trademark but the stories are past copyright.  So the entire story could be made into a movie by simply changing name of the character.  If the story was compelling enough it would be used

For someone constantly berating others as idiots, your reading comprehension isn't great.

No, it's awesome which is why I destroyed his false argument.  Idiot.