Was reading up on Spelljammer a bit, because I wanted to do something similar for a homebrewed setting, and it occurred to me that it appears to be unique amongst published settings.
What I mean is this: There's plenty of fantasy settings with some sci fi elements (Hyperborea, Dying Earth, Tekumel etc.); there's plenty of science-fantasy settings (Star Wars, Starfinder, Hypertellurians etc.); there's plenty of sword & planet/planetary romance settings (Barsoom, Gor, Xuhlan, etc.). But Spelljammer is the only case I know of where someone took standard "elves-dwarves-&-wizards" fantasy and just set it in space, with only the most minimal science or science-fiction elements.
It just surprises me, because with how popular it is for people to publish their own versions of pretty much everything from classic D&D, I would have thought there'd be several unofficial reboots of Spelljammer floating around out there. I know there's Crawljammer for DCC, but AFAIK that's just the ruleset and some adventures.
So I'm curious: Is there another published setting out there like Spelljammer that I don't know about?
Quote from: ForgottenF on March 07, 2023, 03:40:39 PM
Was reading up on Spelljammer a bit, because I wanted to do something similar for a homebrewed setting, and it occurred to me that it appears to be unique amongst published settings.
What I mean is this: There's plenty of fantasy settings with some sci fi elements (Hyperborea, Dying Earth, Tekumel etc.); there's plenty of science-fantasy settings (Star Wars, Starfinder, Hypertellurians etc.); there's plenty of sword & planet/planetary romance settings (Barsoom, Gor, Xuhlan, etc.). But Spelljammer is the only case I know of where someone took standard "elves-dwarves-&-wizards" fantasy and just set it in space, with only the most minimal science or science-fiction elements.
It just surprises me, because with how popular it is for people to publish their own versions of pretty much everything from classic D&D, I would have thought there'd be several unofficial reboots of Spelljammer floating around out there. I know there's Crawljammer for DCC, but AFAIK that's just the ruleset and some adventures.
So I'm curious: Is there another published setting out there like Spelljammer that I don't know about?
The closest that immediately springs to mind -- and it's not even a good fit, really -- is Space 1889.
I know of a few. Dragonstar, Aether & Flux, Voidspanners, Aethera, Starfinder, Necropunk.
Voidspanners is a straight SJ clone. Dragonstar and Starfinder use scifi tech. Aethera uses some kind of magitech. Aether & Flux uses weird steampunkish physics. Necropunk uses psionic necromancy (it's basically Gideon the Ninth as an rpg).
Almost all of these should be easy to find. Aether & Flux is impossible to find because the pdf got taken off drivethrurpg in 2019 or so due to a missing page complaint that never got resolved. I contacted them multiple times and they never fixed it.
Not published, but I did make an attempt at a more old-school (i.e., Burroughs, Lovecraft) take on fantasy space travel a few years ago. It uses "driftwood" (which defies gravity) and "sailcloth" (which propels in starlight), which of course both become a desired commodity and influence planetary relations.
My adventure in Fight On! 7, Song of Tranqulity, is based on those ideas albeit it via a crashed ship.
https://www.godsmonsters.com/Features/silver-sail-gold-above/
In the early nineties there was a small press game, Sun and Stone or something like that.
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Quote from: David Johansen on March 07, 2023, 09:52:47 PM
In the early nineties there was a small press game, Sun and Stone or something like that.
I heard of this, Ulysses & Greek myth in space? Wasn't it d20 and early 2000s?
Quote from: S'mon on March 07, 2023, 11:20:14 PM
I heard of this, Ulysses & Greek myth in space? Wasn't it d20 and early 2000s?
I suspect that this is what you are thinking of:
I loved this growing up. I'm not aware of any RPG adaptions.
wikipedia link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_31)
I think the RPG you are thinking of is this: HELLAS (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/57436/HELLAS-Worlds-of-Sun-and-Stone).
Quote from: dbm on March 08, 2023, 03:02:24 AM
I think the RPG you are thinking of is this: HELLAS (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/57436/HELLAS-Worlds-of-Sun-and-Stone).
Yup!
HELLAS: Worlds of Sun and Stone"HELLAS is an epic space opera in the style of ancient Greek culture and legend. Every player character is a Hero in a story that you will help create, with the power to influence the settings and elements of the game. HELLAS spans multiple generations, allowing for the continuation of the epic story even after the death of a Hero, in the style of the epic poets of old."
Calidar is another fantasy setting in which flying sailing ships can go into outer space.
Skycrawl is a fun little product that's very much like Spelljammer. It's not a full RPG but meant to be added onto whatever RPG you prefer to use- it's aimed at OSR but could be worked with most things by a GM not afraid to tinker with house-rules. Probably the one complaint for Spelljammer fans would be the lack of actual ship design/combat rules, because Skycrawl just uses the ship as a narrative device to facilitate the journey.
The setting is an infinite expanse of sky filled with other floating islands. It's got lots of tables for generating the islands and their inhabitants which all end up suitably weird. There are also voyaging rules for travelling between these floating islands based on how close the islands are and what kind of orbit it has. You have a bonus to reach an island with a stable orbit, and these will end up as hubs for travel and trade; it can be very hard to reach an island with an eccentric orbit and these are the mysterious unknown locations where only adventurers go.
My favourite part is probably how the relative position of the islands isn't based on a map. Rather, each island has an index card with details on it and these are shuffled and dealt to show where they are relative to one another right now. Cards are moved to places in a set pattern once dealt so players can work out if an island they really want to visit will be coming into the closest position soon.
Quote from: Tantavalist on March 08, 2023, 02:03:50 PM
Skycrawl is a fun little product that's very much like Spelljammer. It's not a full RPG but meant to be added onto whatever RPG you prefer to use- it's aimed at OSR but could be worked with most things by a GM not afraid to tinker with house-rules. Probably the one complaint for Spelljammer fans would be the lack of actual ship design/combat rules, because Skycrawl just uses the ship as a narrative device to facilitate the journey.
The setting is an infinite expanse of sky filled with other floating islands. It's got lots of tables for generating the islands and their inhabitants which all end up suitably weird. There are also voyaging rules for travelling between these floating islands based on how close the islands are and what kind of orbit it has. You have a bonus to reach an island with a stable orbit, and these will end up as hubs for travel and trade; it can be very hard to reach an island with an eccentric orbit and these are the mysterious unknown locations where only adventurers go.
My favourite part is probably how the relative position of the islands isn't based on a map. Rather, each island has an index card with details on it and these are shuffled and dealt to show where they are relative to one another right now. Cards are moved to places in a set pattern once dealt so players can work out if an island they really want to visit will be coming into the closest position soon.
Interesting. Looking at it, it seems like it kind of rides the line between being a developed setting and a toolkit. Might be very useful for this homebrew I'm working on. Thanks for that recommendation.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on March 08, 2023, 05:03:58 AM
Calidar is another fantasy setting in which flying sailing ships can go into outer space.
That does look like it might be the closest thing to Spelljammer in terms of a developed setting. Neat. Probably worth a read.
Quote from: ForgottenF on March 08, 2023, 02:45:06 PM
Interesting. Looking at it, it seems like it kind of rides the line between being a developed setting and a toolkit. Might be very useful for this homebrew I'm working on. Thanks for that recommendation.
Like Downcrawl, the previous product by the same author, it's not a developed setting. It's the outline of a setting with the random generation tools you need to develop the setting yourself in play. So no two versions of the campaign will be the same but they'll all share enough common themes that they're recognisable to players of different campaigns.
I can definitely see it being useful for any Spelljammer-style gameplay.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2023, 04:14:16 PM
The closest that immediately springs to mind -- and it's not even a good fit, really -- is Space 1889.
Same. Space 1889 feels like a single system Spelljammer in a small manner.
Close, but probably not close enough is Rifts Phase World?
It's got actual magic and mages, including one major nation of plants called The United Worlds of Warlock. The UWW employs magicians to build and crew spaceships that are powered by magic. Some are pretty much just mundane iron riveted together, but it works because of magic gear built into the ship.
The thing is that the rest of the nations are more conventional, though there are supernatural elements found in most areas.
The main baddies, the Khreegor Empire employ witches as imperial advisors, and their elite troops are aliens with superhero powers called Invincible Guardsmen.
Thank you Tantavalist!
Skycrawl looks very interesting. Definitely perfect for an OSRjammer campaign.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/328583/Skycrawl (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/328583/Skycrawl)
Downcrawl's reviews are notable.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/278571/Downcrawl (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/278571/Downcrawl)
I've been thinking about Spelljammer, too, because I'm so fond of it. After the whole OGL débâcle, there was a takeaway by several law YouTubers that rules are not subject to licensing, so I was thinking how an OSR version of the ruleset would go.
I'm basically taking what is sometimes called "Grubbian physics": the rules on gravity, air envelopes, crystal spheres and the phlogiston (which really should have been called «empyrean» instead, but I digress). Perhaps surprisingly, for now I'm chucking Spelljamming helms, of all things, which are too simplistic to give good results: they're too expensive to be everywhere, too useful not to displace intraplanetary transport, they tie up the spellcasters driving the van, and it's not obvious why ships need crews if the helmsman can propel the ship on his own. Perhaps I'm going to replace it with separate systems for landing/taking off, tactical movement in space, interplanetary movement in wildspace, and access and movement in the phlogiston. Do any of the extant Spelljammer-like games discussed previously treat this issue?
Quote from: Wtrmute on March 10, 2023, 05:10:09 AM
I've been thinking about Spelljammer, too, because I'm so fond of it. After the whole OGL débâcle, there was a takeaway by several law YouTubers that rules are not subject to licensing, so I was thinking how an OSR version of the ruleset would go.
I'm basically taking what is sometimes called "Grubbian physics": the rules on gravity, air envelopes, crystal spheres and the phlogiston (which really should have been called «empyrean» instead, but I digress). Perhaps surprisingly, for now I'm chucking Spelljamming helms, of all things, which are too simplistic to give good results: they're too expensive to be everywhere, too useful not to displace intraplanetary transport, they tie up the spellcasters driving the van, and it's not obvious why ships need crews if the helmsman can propel the ship on his own. Perhaps I'm going to replace it with separate systems for landing/taking off, tactical movement in space, interplanetary movement in wildspace, and access and movement in the phlogiston. Do any of the extant Spelljammer-like games discussed previously treat this issue?
In the Aether & Flux game they use "flux" (basically steampunk electricity) to power their ships, but they otherwise work like ships/airships. Flux capacitors for power, nets of metal wire with current running through on the sails to provide thrust, cannons that shoot lightning, atmosphere scrubbers, gravity generators. All these are different devices requiring different metals and materials to function. The thrust is actually provided by luminiferous aether that suffuses the universe, which repels the flux current. Interplanetary travel is slower than light, it collects into faux crystal spheres called Pale Aether around systems (so you get idiom "beyond the pale"), and intersystem space is The Traverse where FTL is possible due to low ether density.
Saga of the Space Barbarians for ZeFRS is kind of Sword & Sorcery in Space. Since ZeFRS doesn't start out with elves & dwarves it loses that aspect of Spelljammer, but otherwise it's the same kind of idea.