Both.

A Quiet Year and the sequel set in a forest, the name escapes me are also quite good. The sequel can be used to create a dungeon/ruin.

Actually, now that I think about it, both supposed game types have been leaking into each other for years.  It's hard to really separate them from each other if there is such a separation, or if it's yet another Pundit allusion with no basis to reality.

Quote from: RunningLaser;968577The "Let it Ride" from Burning Wheel seemed like a good idea as well.  Letting your test result stand until there was a change.

I find the "Let it Ride" rule to be a rather good simulationist mechanic, especially in a dicepool system like the one BW uses (where no level of skill guarantee you even a single success;)).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;968965Actually, now that I think about it, both supposed game types have been leaking into each other for years.  It's hard to really separate them from each other if there is such a separation, or if it's yet another Pundit allusion with no basis to reality.

Player input world building goes way back. Im pretty sure theres one or two articles on it in early issues of Dragon. And one of the mechanics Gygax noted for solo play was to have other players make levels and send to them to explore.

Theres been a few tries at collaboration styles both formal and informal.

So really depends on the group. For some its a natural outgrowth of the more freeform sandbox style for example.

Also players players creating their own hirelings/retainers/npcs goes pretty far back too.

And then theres co-DMing where a player also DMs at points.

I think Let it Ride from Burning Wheel is a sound, solid mechanic that should really be included in a lot more GMing advice sections. It doesn't need to be a rule at all - just a suggestion for when to time rolls, and how to let consequences matter. I would use a very diminished form of Aspects from FATE in other games as well. Milestones from Marvel were so so, but I never found my players really hitting it off with them in actual play, but creating scenario goals that are listed in the open has merit. We once had a lot of fun running player achievements, and it created some very amusing out of game fun. My table always uses Demerit and Style points for good/bad player behaviour and/or role-playing, but we've been using these since the late 90s.

Quote from: Skarg;968774I don't know of any storygame mechanics that I'd want to use. The closest I got to interested was Microscope, for purposes of creating game world history with the input of others, but I did not end up deciding I actually wanted to use Microscope. I've done collaborative game world design since decades ago, without needing the storygame structures Microscope has.

Yeah, the most interesting thing I seen from story games are mechanics that allow you to build the setting or some aspect of the setting like NPCs.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;968965Actually, now that I think about it, both supposed game types have been leaking into each other for years.  It's hard to really separate them from each other if there is such a separation, or if it's yet another Pundit allusion with no basis to reality.

Yep, I agree. These practices are even leaking to more traditional setups these days. See D&D 5e Inspiration, The Black Hack "GM never rolls dice", Beyond the Wall "playbooks", Mutant Year Zero mix of Hex-crawl & inter-PC drama, etc.

Quote from: Itachi;969105Beyond the Wall "playbooks"

While I agree with the rest of your examples, or at least the ones I'm familiar with, I'd point out that Beyond the Wall's "playbooks" are actually just lifepaths, much closer to Cyberpunk2020 than to any other game out there;).

And yes, of course there would be some leaking, but they're still not the same. Then again, Fate and Traveller both using 2d6 don't suddenly become the same game just because the modifiers to the same dice kinda have to fit in the same range:D!

Quote from: AsenRG;969143While I agree with the rest of your examples, or at least the ones I'm familiar with, I'd point out that Beyond the Wall's "playbooks" are actually just lifepaths, much closer to Cyberpunk2020 than to any other game out there;).

And yes, of course there would be some leaking, but they're still not the same. Then again, Fate and Traveller both using 2d6 don't suddenly become the same game just because the modifiers to the same dice kinda have to fit in the same range:D!

But Lifepaths are a 'storygame' mechanic, they add the 'dreaded' back story for players to work with.

Regarding decks of narrative affecting cards like Paizo's or TORG's, I think Whimsy Cards from Lion Rampant were the first.

The list at this link matches what I remember of them.
http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/systemdesign/cards/whimsycards.html

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969166But Lifepaths are a 'storygame' mechanic, they add the 'dreaded' back story for players to work with.

Generating the past of chargen with whatever mechanics you use isn't the same thing as a "live" mechanic to allow OOC manipulation of the game itself.  Chargen, unless it's 100% random with zero choices is always going to be "narrative" in some form, it has to be.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969166But Lifepaths are a 'storygame' mechanic, they add the 'dreaded' back story for players to work with.

Putting it politely, that's bullshit.

Lifepaths don't create backgrounds??

Quote from: AsenRG;969370Putting it politely, that's bullshit.

He's just sulking because Black Vulmea is speaking in another thread.  So he found a thread where he could act out by grogbaiting.

Quote from: Voros;969379Lifepaths don't create backgrounds??

They do, but creating a background, by itself, can be a simulationist mechanic. The equivocation between background and storygame mechanics is the bullshit part:).

Quote from: CRKrueger;969381He's just sulking because Black Vulmea is speaking in another thread.  So he found a thread where he could act out by grogbaiting.

I don't really care, as you know, but he made the mistake to quote me before spewing his BS line;).