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Is there any BBEG in high fantasy who doesn't have access to magic?

Started by Archangel Fascist, August 20, 2013, 02:40:36 PM

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hamstertamer

#30
August 22, 2013, 09:54:24 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;684628Depends on how you view the class.  If you take a fighter in 3e and strip him of his magic items, he won't be able to function against anything but low-CR monsters.  If you give him his magic items, he'll be able to function, but not particularly well.

I suppose my overall idea is that I'm going to be handing out artifacts to non-casters in my games.  (I don't mean that as snark, I'd like to see a fighter with a sword that lets him control undead, or a rogue who can summon spirits.)

Then you should strip a wizard of his spell book and all material components, also eliminate the connection between a Cleric and their magical God. If you are going make the fighter non-magical in a magical world, make sure to be fair and make the other classes non-magical as well. Otherwise it's a dishonest argument.
Gary Gygax - "It is suggested that you urge your players to provide painted figures representing their characters, henchmen, and hirelings involved in play."

Archangel Fascist

#31
August 23, 2013, 12:44:35 AM
The difference is that spells are a class feature and magic items are magic items.

Votan

#32
August 23, 2013, 12:51:32 AM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;684672The difference is that spells are a class feature and magic items are magic items.

True.  But if wizards and company have an innate power supply and you cannot compensate with technology/magic items then you should not be surprised if things work out to focus on the people with power.

Iron man should be a viable response to Thor . . .

The Ent

#33
August 23, 2013, 01:53:38 AM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;684610I guess this thread has answered my question: powerful fighters need access to magic to function in a game with wizards and clerics.

Depends on edition.

In ad&d a high level fighter w/o Magic can absolutely be a threat (espcially if 18/x Str and dual-wielding Are involved, argh). Ditto High level thief or assassin actually (poison isn't Magic!) especially if higher level than the PCs. Backstab backstab Death attack.

Votan

#34
August 23, 2013, 08:49:38 PM
Quote from: The Ent;684692Depends on edition.

In ad&d a high level fighter w/o Magic can absolutely be a threat (espcially if 18/x Str and dual-wielding Are involved, argh). Ditto High level thief or assassin actually (poison isn't Magic!) especially if higher level than the PCs. Backstab backstab Death attack.

That is true, and ironically most of the things that made this possible have quietly been excised.  But a very tough rogue or warrior that gets the drop on a magic-user has an excellent chance.

hamstertamer

#35
August 23, 2013, 09:08:36 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;684672The difference is that spells are a class feature and magic items are magic items.

Weapon and armor proficiencies are a class features too.  If the fighter must be naked the wizard must be too.
Gary Gygax - "It is suggested that you urge your players to provide painted figures representing their characters, henchmen, and hirelings involved in play."

The Ent

#36
August 24, 2013, 01:32:46 AM
Quote from: Votan;684954That is true, and ironically most of the things that made this possible have quietly been excised.  But a very tough rogue or warrior that gets the drop on a magic-user has an excellent chance.

Yeah, I remember my entire party Being terrorized by a thief once (lost a dual wielding fighter to that guy!). Backstab is very scary vs a MU in particular, as Are the worst poisons (the ones that do damage Even if you save, in particular).

Warboss Squee

#37
August 24, 2013, 04:01:46 AM
Quote from: The Ent;685002Yeah, I remember my entire party Being terrorized by a thief once (lost a dual wielding fighter to that guy!). Backstab is very scary vs a MU in particular, as Are the worst poisons (the ones that do damage Even if you save, in particular).

I lost the Big Bad necromancer in a campaign I was running to my wife's halfling rogue. Double backstab with short swords blew him right into the negatives mid monologue. She did however roll almost max damage with both weapons.

The Ent

#38
August 24, 2013, 04:46:30 AM
Quote from: Warboss Squee;685050I lost the Big Bad necromancer in a campaign I was running to my wife's halfling rogue. Double backstab with short swords blew him right into the negatives mid monologue. She did however roll almost max damage with both weapons.

Cool!

Thieves/rogues shouldn't be underestimated. :cool:

Warboss Squee

#39
August 24, 2013, 04:54:25 AM
Quote from: The Ent;685062Cool!

Thieves/rogues shouldn't be underestimated. :cool:

It was a good game, if I do say so myself. Guy came back as a lich the following year. And was phobic about halflings. But a year irl of running the same campaign and characters made it even easier to deal with him. Poor bastard got bum rushed by both barbarians and the paladin while the sorceress locked down his magic and the rogue broke into his vault to steal his phylactery and the ranger kept a pair of bad ass whights off her back.

All in all, very awesome, but I was totally burned out after.

RPGPundit

#40
August 26, 2013, 01:36:25 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;684262I might be the only one far enough in the series...but, uh, Tywin Lannister is not the BBEG of Game of Thrones.

Its Game Of Thrones. 90% of the cast are BBEGs.

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The Ent

#42
August 26, 2013, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: jdurall;685762King Miraz of Narnia.

He wasn't very good at it though.

Jason D

#43
August 26, 2013, 02:54:39 PM
Voltan from Hawk the Slayer.

I'm not sure if the Bishop of Aquila from Ladyhawke counts, as he invoked a demonic curse on the lovers to keep them apart.

flyerfan1991

#44
August 26, 2013, 03:38:23 PM
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;684262I might be the only one far enough in the series...but, uh, Tywin Lannister is not the BBEG of Game of Thrones.

IMHO, I doubt Martin is going to have a BBEG in Game of Thrones.  From what I can see, it's like watching the Wars of the Roses with a bunch of Shakespeare tossed in for good measure (King Lear, Hamlet, etc).

Nobody is really good, and nobody is really over the top evil.
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