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Is there any BBEG in high fantasy who doesn't have access to magic?

Started by Archangel Fascist, August 20, 2013, 02:40:36 PM

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Archangel Fascist

This can include:

• Being a wizard (or witch, sorcerer, warlock, or magician).
• Having a bloodline of a magical creature (including being a demigod).
• Having a magical sidekick.
• Doing explicitly magical things despite not being explicitly magical (see: shitty anime).
• Having a magical weapon or item that allows him to perform magic.

jeff37923

"Meh."

Daddy Warpig

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Votan

A Song of Fire and Ice would be a pretty good candidate, depending upon who you think the BBEG of the series really is.  Lord Tywin, Cersei, Jamie and Tyrion show little use of or aptitude for magic.  Maybe there is a minor use of it, via a hireling, at some point (limited POV makes this hard to assess) but mostly they manage to be really irritating mundane adversaries.  

On the other hand, if the BBEG is Daenerys Targaryen then she definitely has access to magic via her dragons and bloodline.  At the moment they are really the two camps fighting for first place as the main series villains.  It's pretty clear that the series is intended to be high fantasy.

Edit: Daddy Warpig beat me to it by 4 minutes.

Imp



jadrax

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;683620This can include:

• Being a wizard (or witch, sorcerer, warlock, or magician).
• Having a bloodline of a magical creature (including being a demigod).
• Having a magical sidekick.
• Doing explicitly magical things despite not being explicitly magical (see: shitty anime).
• Having a magical weapon or item that allows him to perform magic.

No, because if there was it would no longer be High Fantasy.

Rincewind1

A tough question actually, since magic is, well, a staple of High Fantasy after all.

There is Mordred, though that depends on a definition of high fantasy as well as BBEG (he had Morgana le Fey behind him, after all).

I would actually suggest Hrathen from Elantris, whose abilities are mostly deadly training, devotion, oratory talent and just a spice of enchantment as we learn by the end of the book.

As for SoIaF, hard to find there a good guy, so pretty much everyone :P.

If we'd count Discworld as High Fantasy, even if parody of it, there is of course Vetinari, the Allfather of Cunning Bastards everywhere (I personally had a good chuckle to see same actor play Vetinari in Going Postal, as Tywin Lannister in SoIaF. That man just has a natural knack for playing ruthless politicians).

One of the Bigger Bads of Malazan also, Kallor, could count to this, because even if he has access to magic, we haven't seen that (except maybe in Toll The Hounds, I can't quite remember), at least when he's doing his Evil Work. He has definitely some sort of magical resistance at the very least, though that may be the result of his curse.

From comic seriers Thorgal, there is of course Kriss de Valnor, a ruthless female mercenary which has no magic capabilities at all, but does make titular character's life living hell on few occasions.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Ravenswing

Well, hang on, let's be exact here.  Doesn't have *access* to magic, or isn't seen on screen to *use* magic?

Let's take Princess Bride, for instance.  Plainly there's magic in the world, and plainly Prince Humperdinck could have some if he wanted.  (Heck, for all we know, he's got a magic sword.)
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Imp

Quote from: Ravenswing;683746Let's take Princess Bride, for instance.  Plainly there's magic in the world, and plainly Prince Humperdinck could have some if he wanted.  (Heck, for all we know, he's got a magic sword.)

The machine in the Pit Of Despair is magical. I'm not sure you can have a BBEG in a high-fantasy world who does not use magic and neither do any of his cohorts. It's high fantasy. There's a lot of magic. The only thing I can think of is a scenario where the BBEG is explicitly anti-magical and trying to destroy all the magic in the world, that sort of thing.

But Humperdinck himself doesn't touch any magic. His only power is being an absurdly good tracker, really.

jadrax

I really would not categorize The Princess Bride as 'High Fantasy'.

Kiero

Quote from: Rincewind1;683694One of the Bigger Bads of Malazan also, Kallor, could count to this, because even if he has access to magic, we haven't seen that (except maybe in Toll The Hounds, I can't quite remember), at least when he's doing his Evil Work. He has definitely some sort of magical resistance at the very least, though that may be the result of his curse.

He's intrinsically magical by nature, given he's cursed with immortality. That gives him access to millenia of combat experience (gained the hard way) and all sorts of knowledge beyond the ken of mere mortals.
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Rincewind1

Quote from: Kiero;683822He's intrinsically magical by nature, given he's cursed with immortality. That gives him access to millenia of combat experience (gained the hard way) and all sorts of knowledge beyond the ken of mere mortals.

True, but I assume we're discussing here BBEGs that may be magical, but they don't (routinely) use magic. And Kallor comes as close to being a badass evil guy in Malazan as can be, without being an ascendant or a wizard :D.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

deadDMwalking

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