TheRPGSite

I hope that this kind of topic is allowed. I did not see a clear rule against this, so here goes nothing.

I am a fairly new addition to the TTRPG space, having started in 2019, and GMing since 2020. I found my first groups within DnD, and quickly found that while I loved the general setting, I preferred Pathfinder 2e by a whole lot, and have moved almost completely to that system.

Now, you might say it was a big mistake, given how woke Pathfinder is. And, absolutely, it's a nightmare. Almost all the adventures contain your stereotypical idiot worthless men, all factions are led by strong females and there's the token gay and trans characters all throughout. But here's the thing - I don't really care. At my table, I just ignore all of that and have a world where things make sense. And, generally, I'm not too against a bit of unrealism. I mean, DnD and its clones are generally games where you can be a small Kobold and still be a barbarian who knocks down a dragon or something. But I still do have a grip on reality, which is why most of my characters are male despite my irl sex being female.

That being said, I hate how limiting the culture around Pathfinder is. The forums, the content creators, every aspect of the game is woke, and not only that, all sorts of related places are going woke as well. Now, I totally would avoid any people who advertise being LGBTQOIJKLé+ friendly, or wanting such an environment, but is there any place on the internet left where you can safely say 'I want people who aren't woke ideologues'? I don't even have a problem with whatever your personal political views are, I just want someone who can keep these things out of the session and has a grip on reality. Someone who isn't a trans ideologue in particular (both me and my husband are detrans, and left severely slighted by a system that pretended to be kind while ignoring mental issues and offering a quick fix that just ended up ruining our lives). And maybe people who don't need to talk 'trigger warnings' before the game.

I'll be honest, that was what I was hoping most when coming to this forum. A place to find refuge from the constant barrage of ideology, and hopefully to find people who are also looking for a respite. That being said, I don't think there's a strong LFG element to the site, so I was wondering... where do you find people to play with? And if they're not available online due to censorship, are there private groups that could fill that same niche?

(PS - in theory, I have nothing against trying other systems. But I genuinely like Pathfinder 2e a lot, just as a system. Open to alternatives, but I hope there's some reconciliation between my disparate needs.)

My group is apolitical, but we meet in person. Personally I think its the best way to avoid the toxic gamers.

You could try asking on the MeWe group - Inglorious OSR.  But, they kind of lean hard the other way.
https://mewe.com/join/ingloriousosr (https://mewe.com/join/ingloriousosr)

Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

"This is how things are now. You and me, trapped in this moment, endlessly."

Suggestion: start decoupling the political from everything.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

I apologize for apparently brushing against a sensitive issue; I am a newcomer from a space where it's genuinely difficult to find online resources specifically for this, but I suppose if it helps, I won't add to it further in the future.

As for the other replies, I am grateful for the responses. Meeting in person is definitely something that's... probably been a bit lost on my generation, sadly, but definitely something that should happen more.

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 03:37:56 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

I apologize for apparently brushing against a sensitive issue; I am a newcomer from a space where it's genuinely difficult to find online resources specifically for this, but I suppose if it helps, I won't add to it further in the future.

As for the other replies, I am grateful for the responses. Meeting in person is definitely something that's... probably been a bit lost on my generation, sadly, but definitely something that should happen more.

Don't mind him, he's got chronic sore buttocks.

Honestly, I'm not sure there's any way to do it, short of actually interacting with folks and feeling them out to make sure you're not winding up in an uncomfortable situation.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2022, 03:39:22 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure there's any way to do it, short of actually interacting with folks and feeling them out to make sure you're not winding up in an uncomfortable situation.

@OP a good way to do it is to join a club/Meetup that doesn't look too awful, then invite the people you like to a private game. You'd need to risk being around Woke gamers initially though, which I can see could be triggering given your experience, the abuse you suffered.

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 03:37:56 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

I apologize for apparently brushing against a sensitive issue; I am a newcomer from a space where it's genuinely difficult to find online resources specifically for this, but I suppose if it helps, I won't add to it further in the future.

As for the other replies, I am grateful for the responses. Meeting in person is definitely something that's... probably been a bit lost on my generation, sadly, but definitely something that should happen more.

You don't have to apologize for shit. Battlemaster is perpetually butthurt and suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

As for finding apolitical or non-woke gamers, try veterans. I have yet to meet a military veteran who is woke. I am sure that there are some out there, but I haven't met any yet.

Also, while Pathfinder 2e is known to be woke, nothing whatsoever is stopping you from playing a woke game like it was normal. Just throw out the woke garbage. Although this may mean tossing the entire game in the case of Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote and Crow.

Good luck with your search!

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

The OP didn't mention anti-woke at all. You are the one who brought that up. Not wanting to play RPGs with the woke is a perfectly reasonable position to take. A lot of people don't want any real-world politics at their table, be that woke, anti-woke or anything else. Some of us just want to roleplay for fun.


To the OP, do you mean finding a group online or in-person? If you're looking for play-by-post online, there's a section of this forum (https://www.therpgsite.com/play-by-post-games/), or there's the likes of https://r.rpol.net/, which I've found tends not to be woke, though there are no doubts some elements there.

If you're looking for virtual real-time play, you can look for a random group at places like https://app.roll20.net/. I've not tried that, but you'll probably get some woke. I'd suggest running short games, e.g. one-shots, to find players you want to play with. Invite those to longer campaigns and leave the woke (or anyone else who ruins the fun) behind.

For meeting in real-life, I suggest going with the suggestions you've already had.

I think you can filter out a lot of hostile people by the game you play. D&D 5e and PF have huge player bases, so I imagine it's easy to find groups but you will increase your chances of getting hostile or political people. However, if you start with a niche game, like a good OSR game or an older edition of D&D, you might find or be able to build a good group.

I met my regular DCC group at a game store by showing up to an open game. We are all just regular schmucks and we don't talk politics at the table.

I play and run a few historically authentic games, like Aquelarre, and that filters people quite nicely. Actually, I don't know for sure because I've never had a hostile interaction with this type of game.

My advice would be advertise in the usual LFG places but be very specific about the game or setting. Like I don't know much about PF, but perhaps advertise you're going to run an old module or say you run it in an OSR style. Also, check out your game stores for local groups. There are many more regular people running and playing games than hostile political types (whose voices are amplified online).

And welcome to the site!

i would suggest places like 4chan's /tg/ or saidit.net, or some other freespeech site i don't know right now.

I will say I thought you were a man with how you type, but when you revealed yourself to be a woman I was taken back. Of course I don't mind you being a woman.

To the OP: Welcome! I've had a lot of the same difficulties wanting to host an apolitical game. My best advice is to simply ignore woke or anti-woke sentiments presented in any gaming materials, and use only what you want from the materials you present for your games. Change what you disagree with to fit how you want to run your game.

And as for players, if they recognize that you have changed something and make a fuss at how you present the materials, advise that you took artistic license with the game matter presented to you just as that same game matter has been artistically changed up to suit the play style of those who re-wrote it in the first place. After all, most of the setting and materials for PF2 and 5E aren't really original or new, they are simply rewrites from a new crop of game designers. You are merely reinterpreting their reinterpretations, and they should not take offense or issue with it.

That might be a hard sell to the crowds most of these two games are written for these days, but it is worth a shot to run the game you want to.

I simply don't bother with 5E anymore unless it isn't a WotC product after my last fiasco. I hosted a one shot at an open table of Ravenloft in a game store and changed Dr. Viktra Mordenheim's name to Dr. Viktor Mordenheim and presented him as male rather than female and explained after a player interrupted to tell me I was "doing it wrong" that I would be using the original characters from Ravenloft and not the remade characters at my game, and it caused three of the players to have a hissy fit and demand I run it as written. I gave them the option to play the game as I presented it or step away from my table, and they left after "reporting" me to the game store owner.

Since then, my adverts for games have largely been for neither of those games, but I always write in them that I as the GM reserve the right to run, modify, and change any prewritten adventure at my table and no player should expect it to be run as written. I would advise that disclaimer for every GM seeking to run a game when they aren't sure who might be showing up at the table.

Welcome to the site splishbuzz.

Yeah, that's a tough conundrum with no easy answer.

Generally speaking, older players trend to be anti-woke, meaning that 40 or older crowd.

I suppose if I was to advert for players I'd say something like we play pathfinder but are seeking players with an OSR mindset. Not perfect....but...

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Yeah, exactly. Sounds like you might need to take a break from therpgsite for your mental health Battlemaster.

Quote from: zircher on July 06, 2022, 02:32:55 PM
You could try asking on the MeWe group - Inglorious OSR.  But, they kind of lean hard the other way.
https://mewe.com/join/ingloriousosr (https://mewe.com/join/ingloriousosr)

Hey zircher. Congrats on joining the 'banned from TBP' group. LOL

If you're recruiting for online play it's easy, just go to Dragonsfoot.org - an OSR site but there's plenty of players of new editions, and aggressively apolitical, where site is anti-woke and tends to attract the more 'colourful' personalities.  ;D

OP, you're in a rough spot. You enjoy PF2e which is the bastion of woketardia, but want PF2e players who aren't woketards. That's a tough call.

The suggestion to game face-to-face is the best call. The internet is festering shithole and online gaming seems to bring out the worst of the basement dwellers.

In-person gaming suddenly becomes self-selecting. The more social skills a person has, the less likely they're woke. The more a person can interact like a normal upright human among others at a table, the less likely they'll go woke at that table.

What MIGHT help with player recruitment is using the PF2e system BUT with your own game world and your own adventures (or conversion of an obviously not-woke setting). Then, you would at least draw attention for people who are turned off by Paizo's shitty setting.

There was a Scarred Lands setting for 3e that was quite good and I'm sure all that stuff would convert easily to PF2e based on the shared D20 DNA.

Good luck and welcome to Mos Eisley.

I can't help you finding your players, as I live in a different country and over here the cancer of modern "politics" (the quote is important) is not so gripping. Having said that, I can give you some suggestions about not throwing out the baby with the water.

Every game - and, in a way, every character - has a political approach. This is unavoidable. My longest running D&D Campaign was based on the Iran-Contra scandal transferred in a fantasy milieu. That was political: a condemnation for the rulers of a country to ditch laws and traditional values "for the greater good" (in my case they were the gods themselves). A key NPC, a female druid of Eldath in the Forgotten Realms, was a total pacifist. I never rolled a single attack die for her, not even against constructs like golems or living statues. She was unyieldingly convinced that even the simplest form of violence led nowhere. That was a political statement. And so on. But my druidette - a character who became much beloved by the players - was never "preachy" about her beliefs (beliefs that, if anything, mirrored those of Salvor Hardin in Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" - not the adaptation by Apple of course).

Then, in my current Call of Cthulhu campaign, a player decided that he wanted to play a transgender male-to-female prostitute and famous card reader. I did some research and, to my surprise, transgenderism was already a thing in 1920. The idea works because she has a powerful pimp, works in a "classy" brothel, and people are attracted by the idea of an "unusual" experience. And she is also a killer card reader - literally (you just don't spend magic points in Arkham without someone losing a limb). All of this has roots in the historical research I did. So, did our group all of sudden became "woke"? No. It was an interesting character concept and we are exploring it (to be clear, I'm running a realistic 1920s campaign). And I guess that the woke crowd would scream anyway at the idea of a transgender character being a prostitute in need of a protector - history be damned.

That's, IMHO, what "freedom in my table" means. Do what you want. Don't ditch something because "it is woke". There is a deep and important difference between a concept and the same concept being now in hostage of some fundamentalist and twisted by them beyond recognition. Exploring diversity in the most ample meaning of the word is, historically, part of the fun of RPGs. Pathfinder 2E is riddled by the now chilling "diverse" and "inclusive" mantras (which, today, mean anything but BTW). My take is that if you need for the rulebook to enable you to include a certain content, then you are not understanding RPGs at all but just a slave to the written word.

So, my suggestion is to avoid "anti-wokeness" out of principle. That's not freedom. There is no point in becoming the mirror image of something. The transgender character in Call of Cthulhu (inspired by Jaye Davidson in "The Crying Game") works because the group understood that there are Things beyond human pettiness. Still, the player is very conscious of the social perils inherent to the transgender condition in the 1920s (ironically, the best protection was the idea that something "like that" was not possible). This creates both an interesting situation and narrative tension. No other player objected, nor this character was born to make a political statement. True, technically the acceptance by the others is political, but based of facts; and the 1920s milieu is not twisted to accept the idea at all.

The only occurrence where a specific set of beliefs should be respected, IMHO, is when you play in a setting based on an author's creation. Concepts like transgenderism or homosexuality in a "Lord of the Rings" campaign shouldn't be allowed (which is why the woke crowd is currently besieging Tolkien's works and Tolkien himself to "prove" the opposite - not unlikely as why Sauron besieged Gondor). OTOH, running Ursula Le Guin "Earthsea" with only white characters... well... and, of course, if you choose to run a campaign in "The Left Hand of Darkness"... So, even in published backgrounds there is space for everyone. Choose what you like.

Find respectful players, give back the original meaning to words like "diverse" and "inclusive", have fun in exploring ideas very different from your own and, generally speaking, have fun.

Oh dear, a lot of replies! Thank you to everyone who welcomed me. Older forums are so much more pleasant than social media...

I won't reply to every single person, if that's alright. The ideas in general are quite good. In short, try to find people IRL, try to find older people, try to do your own or a different setting and/or try to get into OSR style games. Which, honestly, I've never played specifially OSR-like, and I'm not sure I like everything about it, but it generally looks like something I could find fun.

The local games shop shut down during the pandemic (which is honestly a damn shame cause it was how I got into the hobby in the first place), but I guess it's time to try to challenge myself to be more social outside of that.

Quote from: Dropbear on July 06, 2022, 08:28:37 PM
To the OP: Welcome! I've had a lot of the same difficulties wanting to host an apolitical game. My best advice is to simply ignore woke or anti-woke sentiments presented in any gaming materials, and use only what you want from the materials you present for your games. Change what you disagree with to fit how you want to run your game.

And as for players, if they recognize that you have changed something and make a fuss at how you present the materials, advise that you took artistic license with the game matter presented to you just as that same game matter has been artistically changed up to suit the play style of those who re-wrote it in the first place. After all, most of the setting and materials for PF2 and 5E aren't really original or new, they are simply rewrites from a new crop of game designers. You are merely reinterpreting their reinterpretations, and they should not take offense or issue with it.

That might be a hard sell to the crowds most of these two games are written for these days, but it is worth a shot to run the game you want to.

I simply don't bother with 5E anymore unless it isn't a WotC product after my last fiasco. I hosted a one shot at an open table of Ravenloft in a game store and changed Dr. Viktra Mordenheim's name to Dr. Viktor Mordenheim and presented him as male rather than female and explained after a player interrupted to tell me I was "doing it wrong" that I would be using the original characters from Ravenloft and not the remade characters at my game, and it caused three of the players to have a hissy fit and demand I run it as written. I gave them the option to play the game as I presented it or step away from my table, and they left after "reporting" me to the game store owner.

Since then, my adverts for games have largely been for neither of those games, but I always write in them that I as the GM reserve the right to run, modify, and change any prewritten adventure at my table and no player should expect it to be run as written. I would advise that disclaimer for every GM seeking to run a game when they aren't sure who might be showing up at the table.

Oh, dear. That does absolutely sound horrible. I've definitely heard of people who take issues with, say, people modifying Curse of Strahd (which is afaik the 'token' 5e adventure). Which confuses me because I did run Icewind Dale as one of my first DM things, and I felt forced to modify a lot in order to make it make sense. WotC doesn't strike me as particularly good storytellers or module writers in general. That being said, I suppose changing genders could absolutely lead you to being 'reported'...

It's definitely an issue with modern games, too, that everyone is too exposed to the media part. TTRPGs are run by the GM, and the GM ultimately makes the world according to his or her vision. When players have very set expectations, things can get weird. I get that rules are there to make things fairer, but at the same time, I feel like expectations are that the game should run like it's hosted by a celebrity GM somewhere and people who aren't into that style of game are objectively wrong.

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 05:09:45 PM

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 03:37:56 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

I apologize for apparently brushing against a sensitive issue; I am a newcomer from a space where it's genuinely difficult to find online resources specifically for this, but I suppose if it helps, I won't add to it further in the future.

As for the other replies, I am grateful for the responses. Meeting in person is definitely something that's... probably been a bit lost on my generation, sadly, but definitely something that should happen more.

You don't have to apologize for shit. Battlemaster is perpetually butthurt and suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

As for finding apolitical or non-woke gamers, try veterans. I have yet to meet a military veteran who is woke. I am sure that there are some out there, but I haven't met any yet.

Also, while Pathfinder 2e is known to be woke, nothing whatsoever is stopping you from playing a woke game like it was normal. Just throw out the woke garbage. Although this may mean tossing the entire game in the case of Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote and Crow.

Good luck with your search!

Sorry, but 'Thirsty Sword Lesbians' sounds like the funniest shit ever. XD

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 06, 2022, 08:07:46 PM
i would suggest places like 4chan's /tg/ or saidit.net, or some other freespeech site i don't know right now.

I will say I thought you were a man with how you type, but when you revealed yourself to be a woman I was taken back. Of course I don't mind you being a woman.

There's probably a reason why I at one point thought I could be male. I'm disagreeable by nature, and in a group of female friends I'm usually the most assertive. Thankfully those are pretty good qualities for being a GM, and my husband appreciates it since he much prefers being a player lol. Either way, no offense taken.

'Free speech' platforms are a decent option, but there's also a lot of overly political people. I guess not woke, but you do actually find the kind of people who genuinely are anti-DnD (and similar) because it's a satanic game, or at the very least think it's a children's play pretend game that adults shouldn't engage in lest they soften their mind or whatnot. Ah, the unfortunate nature of life.

Quote from: Reckall on July 07, 2022, 05:12:20 AM
I can't help you finding your players, as I live in a different country and over here the cancer of modern "politics" (the quote is important) is not so gripping. Having said that, I can give you some suggestions about not throwing out the baby with the water.

Every game - and, in a way, every character - has a political approach. This is unavoidable. My longest running D&D Campaign was based on the Iran-Contra scandal transferred in a fantasy milieu. That was political: a condemnation for the rulers of a country to ditch laws and traditional values "for the greater good" (in my case they were the gods themselves). A key NPC, a female druid of Eldath in the Forgotten Realms, was a total pacifist. I never rolled a single attack die for her, not even against constructs like golems or living statues. She was unyieldingly convinced that even the simplest form of violence led nowhere. That was a political statement. And so on. But my druidette - a character who became much beloved by the players - was never "preachy" about her beliefs (beliefs that, if anything, mirrored those of Salvor Hardin in Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" - not the adaptation by Apple of course).

Then, in my current Call of Cthulhu campaign, a player decided that he wanted to play a transgender male-to-female prostitute and famous card reader. I did some research and, to my surprise, transgenderism was already a thing in 1920. The idea works because she has a powerful pimp, works in a "classy" brothel, and people are attracted by the idea of an "unusual" experience. And she is also a killer card reader - literally (you just don't spend magic points in Arkham without someone losing a limb). All of this has roots in the historical research I did. So, did our group all of sudden became "woke"? No. It was an interesting character concept and we are exploring it (to be clear, I'm running a realistic 1920s campaign). And I guess that the woke crowd would scream anyway at the idea of a transgender character being a prostitute in need of a protector - history be damned.

That's, IMHO, what "freedom in my table" means. Do what you want. Don't ditch something because "it is woke". There is a deep and important difference between a concept and the same concept being now in hostage of some fundamentalist and twisted by them beyond recognition. Exploring diversity in the most ample meaning of the word is, historically, part of the fun of RPGs. Pathfinder 2E is riddled by the now chilling "diverse" and "inclusive" mantras (which, today, mean anything but BTW). My take is that if you need for the rulebook to enable you to include a certain content, then you are not understanding RPGs at all but just a slave to the written word.

So, my suggestion is to avoid "anti-wokeness" out of principle. That's not freedom. There is no point in becoming the mirror image of something. The transgender character in Call of Cthulhu (inspired by Jaye Davidson in "The Crying Game") works because the group understood that there are Things beyond human pettiness. Still, the player is very conscious of the social perils inherent to the transgender condition in the 1920s (ironically, the best protection was the idea that something "like that" was not possible). This creates both an interesting situation and narrative tension. No other player objected, nor this character was born to make a political statement. True, technically the acceptance by the others is political, but based of facts; and the 1920s milieu is not twisted to accept the idea at all.

The only occurrence where a specific set of beliefs should be respected, IMHO, is when you play in a setting based on an author's creation. Concepts like transgenderism or homosexuality in a "Lord of the Rings" campaign shouldn't be allowed (which is why the woke crowd is currently besieging Tolkien's works and Tolkien himself to "prove" the opposite - not unlikely as why Sauron besieged Gondor). OTOH, running Ursula Le Guin "Earthsea" with only white characters... well... and, of course, if you choose to run a campaign in "The Left Hand of Darkness"... So, even in published backgrounds there is space for everyone. Choose what you like.

Find respectful players, give back the original meaning to words like "diverse" and "inclusive", have fun in exploring ideas very different from your own and, generally speaking, have fun.

I very much sympathise with your comment!
I didn't want to preface this with a whole~ endless comment, but I actually tick a lot of 'diversity boxes' irl, being mixed raced, a woman, and technically LGBT - (I won't associate with the 'community' any more, but I dated women before I met my husband.) Because I'm half asian, I actually grew up partially Buddhist though I consider myself an atheist. Heck, I'm a vegan of 14 years, which is not a very conservative position at all.

I'm not a close-minded person. But 'diversity' in our current age isn't diversity, and diversity of opinion is not tolerated well. I don't want to play a utopia. I'm a naturally darker GM and player. I don't want to play in a perfect society where there's no conflict, and I want to be able to explore topics such as racism etc because I do believe these things are part of the human condition. And despite the fact that we sometimes play gnomes and orcs and fishmen and ratpeople, RPGs at the core are about the human experience, imho. It's about overcoming challenges and companionship within the group of players.

What bothers me are idologues, and I will admit that part of it is because I have a lot of experience being yelled at on the internet. And yeah, sure, you want to grow a thicker skin probably, but I was hoping to just, avoid the kind of people that are frankly indoctrinated. You don't need to 'hate' trans people to be sceptical of their glorification, or question whether surgery and affirmative care actually helps people. There were historically a lot of people who performed the opposite gender role! Many women acted male because they wanted agency in their lives. Many men historically have given up their masculine roles. It doesn't mean necessarily that they were all trans in the modern sense, but it did happen. And nuance is actually very lacking in the sphere of ideologues.

TL;DR - absolutely agree that the modern woke are not diverse and not inclusive, and I am looking for players that are grounded in reality. Unfortunately, I do happen to live in the UK, where this entire thing tends to be very mainstream... :/

iirc isn't buddhism compatible with atheism (In the literal sense; no gods or higher beings) because both say there is no creator? And buddhism is less reliant on gods than other religions? unless you think there is no supernatural element to reality at all, in that case that's okay, just don't act like an ass to others that think differently.

i hope this doesn't go too off topic

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 07, 2022, 06:42:32 AM
iirc isn't buddhism compatible with atheism (In the literal sense; no gods or higher beings) because both say there is no creator? And buddhism is less reliant on gods than other religions? unless you think there is no supernatural element to reality at all, in that case that's okay, just don't act like an ass to others that think differently.

i hope this doesn't go too off topic

There are different strains of Buddhism, some of which are indeed compatible with atheism, though often Buddha himself is worshipped as a God. At its core, though, you're right, Buddha mostly sets out to be a teacher, not a leader.

But the 'don't act like an ass' is probably a good way to approach everything, including TTRPGs. (: I am not perfect, I have a temper sometimes and definitely do occasionally let my emotions overrun me, but I do try my best to be tolerant, and see things from the other perspective. I definitely see the value of spirituality! At the end of the day, though, I feel like in the RPG space, it's fairly easy to say 'We have disagreements at the table, we just won't play on the same table', and leave it at that. It happens more often when you want different things from the game.

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 07, 2022, 07:00:07 AM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 07, 2022, 06:42:32 AM
iirc isn't buddhism compatible with atheism (In the literal sense; no gods or higher beings) because both say there is no creator? And buddhism is less reliant on gods than other religions? unless you think there is no supernatural element to reality at all, in that case that's okay, just don't act like an ass to others that think differently.

i hope this doesn't go too off topic

There are different strains of Buddhism, some of which are indeed compatible with atheism, though often Buddha himself is worshipped as a God. At its core, though, you're right, Buddha mostly sets out to be a teacher, not a leader.

But the 'don't act like an ass' is probably a good way to approach everything, including TTRPGs. (: I am not perfect, I have a temper sometimes and definitely do occasionally let my emotions overrun me, but I do try my best to be tolerant, and see things from the other perspective. I definitely see the value of spirituality! At the end of the day, though, I feel like in the RPG space, it's fairly easy to say 'We have disagreements at the table, we just won't play on the same table', and leave it at that. It happens more often when you want different things from the game.

that's a nice way to approach things.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 06, 2022, 10:05:34 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Yeah, exactly. Sounds like you might need to take a break from therpgsite for your mental health Battlemaster.

Fuck you. I'm finally as sick of the anti woke crowd as I am the woke crowd. I wish you'd both just fucking die already. Get rid of the woke left and the pepe right.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 08:07:30 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 06, 2022, 10:05:34 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Yeah, exactly. Sounds like you might need to take a break from therpgsite for your mental health Battlemaster.

Fuck you. I'm finally as sick of the anti woke crowd as I am the woke crowd. I wish you'd both just fucking die already. Get rid of the woke left and the pepe right.

Cope, seethe, mald

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 08:07:30 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 06, 2022, 10:05:34 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Yeah, exactly. Sounds like you might need to take a break from therpgsite for your mental health Battlemaster.

Fuck you. I'm finally as sick of the anti woke crowd as I am the woke crowd. I wish you'd both just fucking die already. Get rid of the woke left and the pepe right.

Hey dude, no skin off my teeth. You're a valued member of the community. Just trying to provide some perspective. I've had to take time off from the internets before.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 08:07:30 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 06, 2022, 10:05:34 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Yeah, exactly. Sounds like you might need to take a break from therpgsite for your mental health Battlemaster.

Fuck you. I'm finally as sick of the anti woke crowd as I am the woke crowd. I wish you'd both just fucking die already. Get rid of the woke left and the pepe right.

I assure you this is 100% on you.

You come into this thread losing your shit cuz the OP (who's clearly not a ring-winger) brought up a valid concern about finding players who don't try to insert politics into their game. So you had to go off about being sick of anti-woke people when all the OP did was bring up problems they'd had with wokeness in gaming and you yourself ended up in this board due to problems with woke idiots in other boards IIRC. Then someone tells you maybe you need to take a break from these boards, so you go off at them them too and reassert you hate screed.

I've seen your posts a bunch of times over at the political side of the boards whenever the gaming side is dead and I dare venture into that cesspool cuz my curiosity gets the best of me. And every single time I run into your posts you're going off on some inarticulate and poorly spelled out hate screed about how you wish horrible death to come to right-wingers/Republicans if/when a US civil war finally brakes out, or something to that effect, even as you imply in the same post that it's really the OTHER side who're the complete violent lunatic retards. And your posts don't even refute anything they actually said, you're just angry that you saw someone post something you took offence to, so you go off on a deranged screed that doesn't even reply to what they're actually saying, just some partisan talking point or one-sided strawman you built in your head about what all people in "their" side believe or are collectively and single-handedly guilty off (cuz apparently Democrats played no role in fucking up the US).

If you're so fragile that you can't cope with reading posts from people you mildly disagree with and aren't equipped to provide a proper reply to what they're actually saying, maybe do what I do (most of the time) and don't spend hours on end at the political side of the boards frying your brain in online refuse and contributing most of it yourself.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 07, 2022, 10:32:30 AM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 07, 2022, 08:07:30 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 06, 2022, 10:05:34 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 06, 2022, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

Yeah, exactly. Sounds like you might need to take a break from therpgsite for your mental health Battlemaster.

Fuck you. I'm finally as sick of the anti woke crowd as I am the woke crowd. I wish you'd both just fucking die already. Get rid of the woke left and the pepe right.

Hey dude, no skin off my teeth. You're a valued member of the community. Just trying to provide some perspective. I've had to take time off from the internets before.

Internet spat fights are bad for your mental health and just drag you into hours long discussions that mess up your productivity and provide NOTHING of value to your life. Best thing you can do if you can't deal with stuff you read online is GTFO and take a long break, instead of venting and getting dragged into them.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 06, 2022, 10:09:34 PM

Quote from: zircher on July 06, 2022, 02:32:55 PM
You could try asking on the MeWe group - Inglorious OSR.  But, they kind of lean hard the other way.
https://mewe.com/join/ingloriousosr (https://mewe.com/join/ingloriousosr)

Hey zircher. Congrats on joining the 'banned from TBP' group. LOL

Howdy hey!

It took some effort, about six months ago I asked them to close my account and they refused.  [They probably needed the numbers or something to show to their advertisers.]  I didn't think asking them about satire was a perma-ban-worthy offense.  But, I guess I forced them to think and they panicked.   ;D

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 07, 2022, 06:14:40 AM
Unfortunately, I do happen to live in the UK, where this entire thing tends to be very mainstream... :/

The D&D UK Facebook player recruitment group is well moderated and good at staying apolitical https://www.facebook.com/groups/dungeonsdragonuk - an oasis in the social media desert!

If you want to PM me, I can give you a link to my Discord where you can advertise your game, I have a couple dozen non-toxic players there, many of whom are jonesing for more games (at least one is a big PF2 fan, & she's definitely not Woke) and some have partners et al looking for a game too. Also if you're in London I fancy running the 5e Essentials Kit with some new players, would give you a chance to recruit in person...  ;D

For me, I just get players or join a group but I make it clear that politics/religion have no place in the conversation.   

If I am running the game if someone talks about politics they are warned and then if they keep doing it, they get bounced.

There is a time and place to talk about politics.  While playing a game is not one of them (unless you are playing a political game).

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 01:48:54 PM
Almost all the adventures contain your stereotypical idiot worthless men, all factions are led by strong females and there's the token gay and trans characters all throughout. But here's the thing - I don't really care. At my table, I just ignore all of that and have a world where things make sense. And, generally, I'm not too against a bit of unrealism. I mean, DnD and its clones are generally games where you can be a small Kobold and still be a barbarian who knocks down a dragon or something. But I still do have a grip on reality, which is why most of my characters are male despite my irl sex being female.

That being said, I hate how limiting the culture around Pathfinder is. The forums, the content creators, every aspect of the game is woke, and not only that, all sorts of related places are going woke as well.

Make YouTube videos if you aren't already. Talk about your hobby. People will find you that you can get along with. You may not agree with them 100% on everything (that will never be). But there are many people that will agree 80% with you, which is still pretty good.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Project much?

So going ALL the way back to OP: Roll20.

I'm serious.

I had the problem where when looking for a temporary new game that I wanted to run (Conspiracy X v2.0) I kept getting people that were actually mentally ill. Admittedly, it could be due to choice of game, but it's also just because it's Roll20. But here's the kicker - Roll20 has a LOT of people, so you're bound to get some gold nuggets betwixt the dross. Now, Roll20 prevent discrimination. You can't put up an ad and say "BTW, if you're XYZ, don't bother applying." But those rules only apply while you're using Roll20 as a communication platform. Once you're off the site, you can feel free to be as discerning as you want. I even have an e-mail from one of their support staff that confirms this, see the attachment.

So what I've gone around to doing is if I want a game with 4 people, I will invite 8-10 players. I'll engage them in normal conversation about stuff. If they're mental, they'll reveal their power level, and I get to boot them. Then I'll have about 6-7 decent people remaining, but about 2-3 of them will flake, and so I'll have enough people to form a group from. Then it's personal recommendations from that point on, unless we need fresh blood.

And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

Wanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

Wanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

I haven't actually been banned, and I haven't walked away, but that's because I never went there.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

And every single one of them is either a complete retard, or will probably not lose their shit at the mere mention of Trump, even if they do hate him if they're not retarded. Either way it's a still a good screen.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AMWanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

This assumes that they even know WTF rpg.net is. Not everyone who plays RPGs is active enough in forums to know about forum drama. And they might still be woke and simply never been to rpg.net, but even then they would still probably know about Trump.

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 10, 2022, 10:02:51 AM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

And every single one of them is either a complete retard, or will probably not lose their shit at the mere mention of Trump, even if they do hate him if they're not retarded. Either way it's a still a good screen.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AMWanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

This assumes that they even know WTF rpg.net is. Not everyone who plays RPGs is active enough in forums to know about forum drama. And they might still be woke and simply never been to rpg.net, but even then they would still probably know about Trump.

That's why policies and news are a better test. It allows for nuance and better filtering. Besides, someone might disagree with your politics but they could still be able to put that shit away while the game is happening.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 10, 2022, 07:42:27 AM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

Wanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

I haven't actually been banned, and I haven't walked away, but that's because I never went there.

Soo, there's a good chance you meet the op's standards.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

Trump Derangement Syndrome at it's finest!

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM
Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

There will always be never-Trumpers. But they don't make nearly as much fuss as you just did.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM
Wanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

I was banned from that site years ago. Not sure what you're screening for exactly with the mentioning of it. What if the person your screening doesn't use BBS forums? Most of them don't.

Anyway, learn to vet players. Sounds like you have no clue. Or people have already vetted you away from their tables. I don't allow democrats in my games.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 06, 2022, 03:27:10 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, does every fucking game thread here have to mention being  anti woke?  Does everyone  here have to fuckibg constantly virture signal how anti woke they are?

The anti woke crowd is as fucking tiresome as the woke crowd.

"Oi mate, can you not be a cunt or I'll start avoiding you and people like you."

"OMG, you are just as bad as those so called heckin valid SJWs!"

Having standards for your friends and groups is not the gotcha you think it is. I as a person have a right to associate with whomever I like. Without being forced to. If someone is constantly screaming about how Race in DnD is some flavour of ism I and the rest of my group have a right to say that sort of tedious sophistry is unacceptable in my group. The same as you guys do when you talk about fiery yet peaceful property destruction and someone wants to bring Trump into it.

Groups have standards. They may differ on a per group basis. Whining because one group has different standards than yours just shows how intolerant you are. It is perfectly acceptable for a person to look for a likeminded group as opposed to a group that will not be welcoming to people with his opinions. That you can't accept this is more proof that SJWs are the real bigots and fascists.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 02:18:52 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on July 10, 2022, 07:42:27 AM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on July 10, 2022, 12:26:07 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 09, 2022, 01:31:21 PM
And as far as filtering woke people specifically, do the stuff I outlined above, but your "filter" would be talking about the ridiculous shit that woke people/entities do and you say "Wow look, XYZ decided to enforce pronouns in e-mails, isn't that absolutely bullshit?" Then if they start defending it, you boot them. ezpz

Just mention Trump. See what reactions you get for that. Then start booting accordingly.

Bullshit, lots of non woke hate trump now.

Wanna woke screen? Ask people how they feel about rpg.net. I'd be suspicious of anyone who has not been banned or walked away from that pit.

I haven't actually been banned, and I haven't walked away, but that's because I never went there.

Soo, there's a good chance you meet the op's standards.

for being 'woke'? no, as my personal politics are pretty far from 'woke', and I also don't care about what people put in their media. Depiction is not endorsement, nobody is forcing you to consume dark media, and media does not affect reality.

For being 'non-woke'? Yes.

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 01:48:54 PM
...where do you find people to play with...

I tend to play with friends and acquaintances, and tend to not play with strangers (that's not a die-hard rule, it's just how it works out for me). If you do that, you kinda automatically know who you're inviting to the table (or not) beforehand.

Greetings!

Yes, just mention TRUMP and watch the woke Libtards froth at the mouth! ;D

An *excellent* way to screen these morons away from your game group.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I appreciate OP kicking off this this topic as this is an issue that I'm struggling with too.

I'm currently between groups and am looking for non-woke players myself.

I had a small group that I had invited over on a probational basis and had to broom the whole lot of them!  The problem was that the SJW's do NOT have a firm foundation based in reality.  And that seems to translate to problems at the table.

I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I appreciate OP kicking off this this topic as this is an issue that I'm struggling with too.

I'm currently between groups and am looking for non-woke players myself.

I had a small group that I had invited over on a probational basis and had to broom the whole lot of them!  The problem was that the SJW's do NOT have a firm foundation based in reality.  And that seems to translate to problems at the table.

I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

Quote from: drayakir on July 13, 2022, 02:22:12 PM

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I appreciate OP kicking off this this topic as this is an issue that I'm struggling with too.

I'm currently between groups and am looking for non-woke players myself.

I had a small group that I had invited over on a probational basis and had to broom the whole lot of them!  The problem was that the SJW's do NOT have a firm foundation based in reality.  And that seems to translate to problems at the table.

I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

We must return to Monke.

I once recruited a player for my Discord game from a "Weekend AD&D" Facebook group. Five sessions into the game he had a conniption over a conservative post that I made on a public forum (on how I wouldn't use gender confusion pronouns) and then quit.

Easy Answer?

Play or reff GURPS 4/e and don't allow politics at your game table.

There, problem solved.

-Ed C.

Quote from: drayakir on July 13, 2022, 02:22:12 PM

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

You may be on to something.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on July 22, 2022, 12:04:48 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 13, 2022, 02:22:12 PM

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

You may be on to something.

Or maybe just on something...

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on July 11, 2022, 02:18:46 PM

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 01:48:54 PM
...where do you find people to play with...

I tend to play with friends and acquaintances, and tend to not play with strangers (that's not a die-hard rule, it's just how it works out for me). If you do that, you kinda automatically know who you're inviting to the table (or not) beforehand.

That was normal for tabletop gaming but it's not my faraway long-term friends who are playing online now.

Quote from: Timothe on July 22, 2022, 02:05:38 AM

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on July 11, 2022, 02:18:46 PM

Quote from: splishbuzz on July 06, 2022, 01:48:54 PM
...where do you find people to play with...

I tend to play with friends and acquaintances, and tend to not play with strangers (that's not a die-hard rule, it's just how it works out for me). If you do that, you kinda automatically know who you're inviting to the table (or not) beforehand.

That was normal for tabletop gaming but it's not my faraway long-term friends who are playing online now.

I play exclusively around a table and don't play online, which is probably (another) big disconnect between me and the modern RPG scene.

Try your local gun club or pitbull breeders association meetings. Also, NASCAR events. It might be hard to find gamers as such at these kinds of shindigs, but any you do find won't be libtards. Good luck!

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 12:12:53 AM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on July 22, 2022, 12:04:48 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 13, 2022, 02:22:12 PM

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

You may be on to something.

Or maybe just on something...

The epidemic of mental health problems about the current generation is a proven and worrying fact, and the unhealthy relationship with social media is considered a key factor. Sane social psychologists ranging from Jonathan Haidt to Jean Twenge have traced a direct connection between "Social media era" ---> "Mental fragility" ---> "Mindless polarization". In her book "iGen (https://www.amazon.com/iGen-Super-Connected-Rebellious-Happy-Adulthood/dp/1501152017/ref=sr_1_1?crid=NX7TDYIMLEYX&keywords=igen+book&qid=1658475357&sprefix=igen%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-1)" Twenge writes:

"The complete dominance of the smartphone among teens has had ripple effects across every area of iGen'ers' lives, from their social interactions to their mental health. The average teen checks her phone more than eighty times a day.
[...]
They are obsessed with safety and fearful of their economic futures, and they have no patience for inequality based on gender, race, or sexual orientation. They are at the forefront of the worst mental health crisis in decades, with rates of teen depression and suicide skyrocketing since 2011."

Jonathan Haidt wrote "The Coddling of the American Mind (https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224919/ref=sr_1_1?crid=30MGFXEU4ANO1&keywords=the+coddling+of+the+american+mind&qid=1658476582&s=books&sprefix=the+coddling%2Cstripbooks%2C166&sr=1-1)". This book contains, in a chapter among many, an astounding series of examples of "Words are violence, violence is safety" in contemporary American campuses - with such violence hitting from alt-right speakers (check Berkley 2017), to speeches sponsored by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (by a group called "Refuse Fascism" - one cannot make up such things), to courses about "Sappho, an ancient Greek poet from the island of Lesbos and an icon of both feminism and lesbian liberation." (because "the Ancient World was white"). When the lecturer of the latter, Lucía Martínez Valdivia, asked at least to not be physically assaulted because she suffers from PTSD, the answer was a chilling word salad (https://www.facebook.com/reediesagainstr4cism/posts/1186608438084694). If you bother to read that remember how it is about a gay, mixed-race, feminist woman with PTSD who was physically assaulted by the writers of that manifesto.

I hope that the above is not considered political, because it is not about politics at all but about how "politics" (firmly between quotes) are symbolic of a whole generation deeply confused, scared by words, whose beliefs are rooted in slogans but not in the real, practical application of those slogans. The result is blind violence even against "their own", and guided by beliefs as strong as they are illusionary.

Haidt and others look at politics, beliefs and their application (or delusional application) only as a thermometer of social mental health. The fact that there is a precise cut off year, 2012, for the decline of the mental health of a whole generation was an important clue. What happened? Haidt sums up five years of research in a very long article for The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/). An abstract among many:

"By 2013, social media had become a new game, with dynamics unlike those in 2008. If you were skillful or lucky, you might create a post that would "go viral" and make you "internet famous" for a few days. If you blundered, you could find yourself buried in hateful comments. Your posts rode to fame or ignominy based on the clicks of thousands of strangers, and you in turn contributed thousands of clicks to the game.

This new game encouraged dishonesty and mob dynamics: Users were guided not just by their true preferences but by their past experiences of reward and punishment, and their prediction of how others would react to each new action. One of the engineers at Twitter who had worked on the "Retweet" button later revealed that he regretted his contribution because it had made Twitter a nastier place. As he watched Twitter mobs forming through the use of the new tool, he thought to himself, "We might have just handed a 4-year-old a loaded weapon."

As a social psychologist who studies emotion, morality, and politics, I saw this happening too. The newly tweaked platforms were almost perfectly designed to bring out our most moralistic and least reflective selves. The volume of outrage was shocking."

Amusingly, later in this article we even find why TBP got all of it wrong:

"John Stuart Mill said, "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that," and he urged us to seek out conflicting views "from persons who actually believe them." People who think differently and are willing to speak up if they disagree with you make you smarter, almost as if they are extensions of your own brain. People who try to silence or intimidate their critics make themselves stupider"

tl;dr: We thought we were ready for the information age, we took a wrong turn and a whole generation entered in a nightmare eyes wide open. Even worse, politicians from both sides of the aisle, media and entertainment companies of every kind and level are chasing this twisted reality, compounding the echo chamber effect.

What will happen ten years from now is in the lap of the Gods. For sure, a whole generation is about to enter real life totally unprepared. Haidt sees hope in "the exhausted majority": those with too many broken bones and too many frustrations to be able to go on the way they are now. If the number of people who invite TBP to suck wind increases in the next few years, he will be proven right. If not, that will not be my problem.

Great points, but I'm far more pessimistic than you and I don't think anything can be done about this. This is also true for RPGs, which are actually surprisingly popular (for now) on social media and social media types infest it.

Quote from: Reckall on July 22, 2022, 07:42:12 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 12:12:53 AM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on July 22, 2022, 12:04:48 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 13, 2022, 02:22:12 PM

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

You may be on to something.

Or maybe just on something...

The epidemic of mental health problems about the current generation is a proven and worrying fact, and the unhealthy relationship with social media is considered a key factor. Sane social psychologists ranging from Jonathan Haidt to Jean Twenge have traced a direct connection between "Social media era" ---> "Mental fragility" ---> "Mindless polarization". In her book "iGen (https://www.amazon.com/iGen-Super-Connected-Rebellious-Happy-Adulthood/dp/1501152017/ref=sr_1_1?crid=NX7TDYIMLEYX&keywords=igen+book&qid=1658475357&sprefix=igen%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-1)" Twenge writes:

"The complete dominance of the smartphone among teens has had ripple effects across every area of iGen'ers' lives, from their social interactions to their mental health. The average teen checks her phone more than eighty times a day.
[...]
They are obsessed with safety and fearful of their economic futures, and they have no patience for inequality based on gender, race, or sexual orientation. They are at the forefront of the worst mental health crisis in decades, with rates of teen depression and suicide skyrocketing since 2011."

Jonathan Haidt wrote "The Coddling of the American Mind (https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224919/ref=sr_1_1?crid=30MGFXEU4ANO1&keywords=the+coddling+of+the+american+mind&qid=1658476582&s=books&sprefix=the+coddling%2Cstripbooks%2C166&sr=1-1)". This book contains, in a chapter among many, an astounding series of examples of "Words are violence, violence is safety" in contemporary American campuses - with such violence hitting from alt-right speakers (check Berkley 2017), to speeches sponsored by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (by a group called "Refuse Fascism" - one cannot make up such things), to courses about "Sappho, an ancient Greek poet from the island of Lesbos and an icon of both feminism and lesbian liberation." (because "the Ancient World was white"). When the lecturer of the latter, Lucía Martínez Valdivia, asked at least to not be physically assaulted because she suffers from PTSD, the answer was a chilling word salad (https://www.facebook.com/reediesagainstr4cism/posts/1186608438084694). If you bother to read that remember how it is about a gay, mixed-race, feminist woman with PTSD who was physically assaulted by the writers of that manifesto.

I hope that the above is not considered political, because it is not about politics at all but about how "politics" (firmly between quotes) are symbolic of a whole generation deeply confused, scared by words, whose beliefs are rooted in slogans but not in the real, practical application of those slogans. The result is blind violence even against "their own", and guided by beliefs as strong as they are illusionary.

Haidt and others look at politics, beliefs and their application (or delusional application) only as a thermometer of social mental health. The fact that there is a precise cut off year, 2012, for the decline of the mental health of a whole generation was an important clue. What happened? Haidt sums up five years of research in a very long article for The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/). An abstract among many:

"By 2013, social media had become a new game, with dynamics unlike those in 2008. If you were skillful or lucky, you might create a post that would "go viral" and make you "internet famous" for a few days. If you blundered, you could find yourself buried in hateful comments. Your posts rode to fame or ignominy based on the clicks of thousands of strangers, and you in turn contributed thousands of clicks to the game.

This new game encouraged dishonesty and mob dynamics: Users were guided not just by their true preferences but by their past experiences of reward and punishment, and their prediction of how others would react to each new action. One of the engineers at Twitter who had worked on the "Retweet" button later revealed that he regretted his contribution because it had made Twitter a nastier place. As he watched Twitter mobs forming through the use of the new tool, he thought to himself, "We might have just handed a 4-year-old a loaded weapon."

As a social psychologist who studies emotion, morality, and politics, I saw this happening too. The newly tweaked platforms were almost perfectly designed to bring out our most moralistic and least reflective selves. The volume of outrage was shocking."

Amusingly, later in this article we even find why TBP got all of it wrong:

"John Stuart Mill said, "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that," and he urged us to seek out conflicting views "from persons who actually believe them." People who think differently and are willing to speak up if they disagree with you make you smarter, almost as if they are extensions of your own brain. People who try to silence or intimidate their critics make themselves stupider"

tl;dr: We thought we were ready for the information age, we took a wrong turn and a whole generation entered in a nightmare eyes wide open. Even worse, politicians from both sides of the aisle, media and entertainment companies of every kind and level are chasing this twisted reality, compounding the echo chamber effect.

What will happen ten years from now is in the lap of the Gods. For sure, a whole generation is about to enter real life totally unprepared. Haidt sees hope in "the exhausted majority": those with too many broken bones and too many frustrations to be able to go on the way they are now. If the number of people who invite TBP to suck wind increases in the next few years, he will be proven right. If not, that will not be my problem.

tl;dr: Goddang those young uns with their goddang phones and whatchoosamicallits.

Quote from: Dylan: King of the Dead on July 22, 2022, 09:37:10 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 22, 2022, 07:42:12 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 12:12:53 AM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on July 22, 2022, 12:04:48 AM

Quote from: drayakir on July 13, 2022, 02:22:12 PM

Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 13, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
I find it odd how nonsensical people have become as of late.  How did these people become so deranged?  Anyone have a clue?

Everyone has, not just the woke. And the answer is that our brains aren't equipped for the Information Age.

You may be on to something.

Or maybe just on something...

The epidemic of mental health problems about the current generation is a proven and worrying fact, and the unhealthy relationship with social media is considered a key factor. Sane social psychologists ranging from Jonathan Haidt to Jean Twenge have traced a direct connection between "Social media era" ---> "Mental fragility" ---> "Mindless polarization". In her book "iGen (https://www.amazon.com/iGen-Super-Connected-Rebellious-Happy-Adulthood/dp/1501152017/ref=sr_1_1?crid=NX7TDYIMLEYX&keywords=igen+book&qid=1658475357&sprefix=igen%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-1)" Twenge writes:

"The complete dominance of the smartphone among teens has had ripple effects across every area of iGen'ers' lives, from their social interactions to their mental health. The average teen checks her phone more than eighty times a day.
[...]
They are obsessed with safety and fearful of their economic futures, and they have no patience for inequality based on gender, race, or sexual orientation. They are at the forefront of the worst mental health crisis in decades, with rates of teen depression and suicide skyrocketing since 2011."

Jonathan Haidt wrote "The Coddling of the American Mind (https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224919/ref=sr_1_1?crid=30MGFXEU4ANO1&keywords=the+coddling+of+the+american+mind&qid=1658476582&s=books&sprefix=the+coddling%2Cstripbooks%2C166&sr=1-1)". This book contains, in a chapter among many, an astounding series of examples of "Words are violence, violence is safety" in contemporary American campuses - with such violence hitting from alt-right speakers (check Berkley 2017), to speeches sponsored by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (by a group called "Refuse Fascism" - one cannot make up such things), to courses about "Sappho, an ancient Greek poet from the island of Lesbos and an icon of both feminism and lesbian liberation." (because "the Ancient World was white"). When the lecturer of the latter, Lucía Martínez Valdivia, asked at least to not be physically assaulted because she suffers from PTSD, the answer was a chilling word salad (https://www.facebook.com/reediesagainstr4cism/posts/1186608438084694). If you bother to read that remember how it is about a gay, mixed-race, feminist woman with PTSD who was physically assaulted by the writers of that manifesto.

I hope that the above is not considered political, because it is not about politics at all but about how "politics" (firmly between quotes) are symbolic of a whole generation deeply confused, scared by words, whose beliefs are rooted in slogans but not in the real, practical application of those slogans. The result is blind violence even against "their own", and guided by beliefs as strong as they are illusionary.

Haidt and others look at politics, beliefs and their application (or delusional application) only as a thermometer of social mental health. The fact that there is a precise cut off year, 2012, for the decline of the mental health of a whole generation was an important clue. What happened? Haidt sums up five years of research in a very long article for The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/). An abstract among many:

"By 2013, social media had become a new game, with dynamics unlike those in 2008. If you were skillful or lucky, you might create a post that would "go viral" and make you "internet famous" for a few days. If you blundered, you could find yourself buried in hateful comments. Your posts rode to fame or ignominy based on the clicks of thousands of strangers, and you in turn contributed thousands of clicks to the game.

This new game encouraged dishonesty and mob dynamics: Users were guided not just by their true preferences but by their past experiences of reward and punishment, and their prediction of how others would react to each new action. One of the engineers at Twitter who had worked on the "Retweet" button later revealed that he regretted his contribution because it had made Twitter a nastier place. As he watched Twitter mobs forming through the use of the new tool, he thought to himself, "We might have just handed a 4-year-old a loaded weapon."

As a social psychologist who studies emotion, morality, and politics, I saw this happening too. The newly tweaked platforms were almost perfectly designed to bring out our most moralistic and least reflective selves. The volume of outrage was shocking."

Amusingly, later in this article we even find why TBP got all of it wrong:

"John Stuart Mill said, "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that," and he urged us to seek out conflicting views "from persons who actually believe them." People who think differently and are willing to speak up if they disagree with you make you smarter, almost as if they are extensions of your own brain. People who try to silence or intimidate their critics make themselves stupider"

tl;dr: We thought we were ready for the information age, we took a wrong turn and a whole generation entered in a nightmare eyes wide open. Even worse, politicians from both sides of the aisle, media and entertainment companies of every kind and level are chasing this twisted reality, compounding the echo chamber effect.

What will happen ten years from now is in the lap of the Gods. For sure, a whole generation is about to enter real life totally unprepared. Haidt sees hope in "the exhausted majority": those with too many broken bones and too many frustrations to be able to go on the way they are now. If the number of people who invite TBP to suck wind increases in the next few years, he will be proven right. If not, that will not be my problem.

tl;dr: Goddang those young uns with their goddang phones and whatchoosamicallits.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

No.

I think that what is happening - which ties digital media (esp. social media), wokeism (ironically, even self-harming wokeism) and violence - is a very underestimated factor in what is happening in pop culture.

On one side, as I wrote, media and entertainment companies pander to this crowd, not realising how unnaturally wired their brains are, but fearfully knowing that they will refuse and even attack anything "problematic".

On the other side, many from this generation are now entering the creative markets. Creativity without real life experience is sterile. However, who needs "real life experience" (which is feared and hated anyway) when you can run towards the nearest woke concept, very possibly grab an existing strong IP, pretend for "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" when these creative endeavours are consumed, are and they are done?

I write for a living and it is hard. I wrote commercially for RPGs and it was hard. I think that both the Pundit and anyone else here who writes honestly trying to push out good products (from RPGs to comics to TV shows) can tell the same. How easier is to push out "The Rings of Power" or nu-D&D, uh? But I have my classic books, I play with people with my mindset, I notice that my good efforts often are rewarded (not always, alas)... The rest is no more my problem.