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Is There a Major D&D Setting That is so Ruined it Won't Ever Make a Comeback?

Started by RPGPundit, June 04, 2017, 05:10:47 AM

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S'mon

#75
June 08, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: Voros;967118That's exactly what the Weis 3e hardcovers are but for 3e not 5e obviously. DL Adventures and the 3e boxset are fine settings.

Looks like these weren't released here in UK - amazon is only showing the books, can't even find anything on Ebay except the boxset.

Omega

#76
June 08, 2017, 08:28:11 AM
Quote from: S'mon;967098I would think Dragonlance could succeed with a 5e conversion of the original modules published as a hardback (with original Elmore art & a few new pieces by him), and some GM advice on easing back on the railroading. As others have indicated, the problem with DL is it's essentially a series not a setting.

Except they arent as big a railroad or novel as people keep saying they are. I've been glancing through the first three and aside from a few timed event type things its been surprisingly open. As I noted previously. The players can through their own actions, or inaction actually totally derail the setting. Maybe it gets worse later, but the ones I have arent showing it as bad as I've allways been lead to believe.

Back on topic. Dragonlance is one of those examples I mentioned before of settings that with each iteration seem to get worse somehow. And between DL and FR Id have to say DL has devolved the worst.

Llew ap Hywel

#77
June 08, 2017, 08:51:18 AM
The problem with DL isn't railroading (which isn't an issue unless your using the modules on which opinions vary) but the way in which each successive iteration moves further from the source.

You play Dragonlance for a war torn campaign where the gods are essentially using pawns to fight out an argument over their own personal philosophy. The setting, the gods, the war and even the history are characters in their own right and you change or remove them at your own peril
Talk gaming or talk to someone else.

Crawford Tillinghast

#78
June 08, 2017, 02:11:59 PM
I think the problem with Dragonlance, or any tied in setting, is predestination.  I tried running the DL campaign years ago, and here is what happened:  "OK, I like Strum, I'll play him, but I'm going to die at the Battle of the Tower."
Me: No you're not.  Well, maybe, but the future is unwritten.  
Player:  No, all we're going to do is re-enact the novel scene for scene.
Me:  No, there are potentials for change -
Player:  KISMIT!
etc.

Same with Middle Earth:  "There's no point!  Either the Ring quest succeeds or it doesn't.  Nothing matters except those two hobbits!"
Star Wars?  "Why bother?  You're either Luke dive bombing the Death Star, or you're pointless."

And so forth.

Voros

#79
June 08, 2017, 02:15:04 PM
That's just some nerd obsessed with 'canon.' When I played DL I hadn't read the books. Even if I had, myself, the DM and the rest of the players had no issue seperating the novels from the RPG setting. One simple way to avoid that is to use your own PCs or even just play outside the War of the Lance period.

Steven Mitchell

#80
June 08, 2017, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: Voros;967187That's just some nerd obsessed with 'canon.' When I played DL I hadn't read the books. Even if I had, myself, the DM and the rest of the players had no issue seperating the novels from the RPG setting. One simple way to avoid that is to use your own PCs or even just play outside the War of the Lance period.

There's being obsessed with canon.  Then there's being able to separate that from playing in the setting.  Then there's wanting to not know the canon of the setting you are playing in (for various reasons, including for some people a setting is more fun when they don't have to mentally separate it but can just live it).

Of course, that's not merely a DL thing, but applies when running in any published setting.  I wouldn't want to run in Middle Earth, either, even though I enjoy the setting in the books.  And the handful of players that I've had that would like something like Middle Earth in a game, probably wouldn't enjoy it very much done explicitly as Middle Earth.

DavetheLost

#81
June 08, 2017, 03:01:03 PM
Canon nerds are a problem in any published setting. That's why the first thing I do when running a game in a published settinb is to establish what is canon, what is apocrypha, and what is heresy. Usually I state that everything that happens in the published sources is what will happen if nothing occurs in the game to change it. Go to Tatooine and kill Luke before he meets R2 and 3P0, the Deathstar may blow up Yavin IV, dealing the Rebellion a near fatal set back.

Crawford Tillinghast

#82
June 08, 2017, 03:11:47 PM

Quote from: Voros;967187That's just some nerd obsessed with 'canon.' When I played DL I hadn't read the books. Even if I had, myself, the DM and the rest of the players had no issue seperating the novels from the RPG setting. One simple way to avoid that is to use your own PCs or even just play outside the War of the Lance period.

You've never encountered this attitude at your FLGS?  Look at this very thread:  "Railroad" "Replaying a novel" etc.  The consensus throughout gamedom is that the DL campaign is just re-running the novel.  I disagree myself, but to me this seems to be common wisdom on the subject.

Omega

#83
June 09, 2017, 01:15:07 AM
Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;967186I think the problem with Dragonlance, or any tied in setting, is predestination.  I tried running the DL campaign years ago, and here is what happened:  "OK, I like Strum, I'll play him, but I'm going to die at the Battle of the Tower."
Me: No you're not.  Well, maybe, but the future is unwritten.  
Player:  No, all we're going to do is re-enact the novel scene for scene.
Me:  No, there are potentials for change -
Player:  KISMIT!
etc.

Same with Middle Earth:  "There's no point!  Either the Ring quest succeeds or it doesn't.  Nothing matters except those two hobbits!"
Star Wars?  "Why bother?  You're either Luke dive bombing the Death Star, or you're pointless."

And so forth.

This is where I tell the player to grow some damn brain cells or get the fuck out.

Justin Alexander

#84
June 09, 2017, 02:07:55 AM Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:41:10 AM by Justin Alexander
The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

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Note: this sig cut for personal slander and harassment by a lying tool who has been engaging in stalking me all over social media with filthy lies - RPGPundit

Omega

#85
June 09, 2017, 02:13:57 AM
Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;967202


You've never encountered this attitude at your FLGS?  Look at this very thread:  "Railroad" "Replaying a novel" etc.  The consensus throughout gamedom is that the DL campaign is just re-running the novel.  I disagree myself, but to me this seems to be common wisdom on the subject.

All I can assume from reading the first three is that either it gets worse later... Or a-lot of the hate for the modules is from people who have never actually looked at them and were just told to hate it. Because all this "play the novel" and "horrible railroad" isnt appearing in the modules or DL Adventures.

Im disappointed.

Voros

#86
June 09, 2017, 04:15:31 AM
Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;967202


You've never encountered this attitude at your FLGS?  Look at this very thread:  "Railroad" "Replaying a novel" etc.  The consensus throughout gamedom is that the DL campaign is just re-running the novel.  I disagree myself, but to me this seems to be common wisdom on the subject.

Never played at my FLGS, just homegames with friends.

The consensus on DL seems to be from those who have never actually played the modules or even read them, anyone who has would know the claims of it being a 'railroad' are exaggerated, epecially as the series progresses.

Gronan of Simmerya

#87
June 09, 2017, 06:31:22 PM
The setting that has been ruined beyond salvation is Greyhawk.  The ORIGINAL Greyhawk, the one Gary Gygax actually ran.

What was published bears no resemblance at all, other than some names.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Dumarest

#88
June 09, 2017, 06:38:24 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;967422The setting that has been ruined beyond salvation is Greyhawk.  The ORIGINAL Greyhawk, the one Gary Gygax actually ran.

What was published bears no resemblance at all, other than some names.

One could argue those are two separate things and thus no one can despoil the original Greyhawk, just as a rotten movie version doesn't  obliterate a good book.

Say, what's this book you refer to in your signature line?

Armchair Gamer

#89
June 09, 2017, 07:46:43 PM
Quote from: Voros;967313Never played at my FLGS, just homegames with friends.

The consensus on DL seems to be from those who have never actually played the modules or even read them, anyone who has would know the claims of it being a 'railroad' are exaggerated, epecially as the series progresses.

   I think part of the problem is that it's the early modules that are the worst on the 'play the novels' and 'railroading' parts, although it's been a while since I last looked at them. DL1, DL2 and DL7 are the only ones that have really strong parallels in the novels (and even DL7 is iffy)--DL3, 4 and 6 are all offscreen until 2006, and after the novels get ahead of the modules at the point of DL7, the modules really do go off in their own direction. Class rule changes in the Silvanesti Nightmare, the King of the Deep in Istar, the Glitterpalace ...
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