Quote from: Fritzs;257585Standarts of how to act are necessary for ones survival within society and for society to work. If you break them (for example you murder someone) you will be punished (jailed, executed). However I belive, that having standarts for "what should I imagine" or "what should I fap to" isn't necessary for you.

You can fap to whatever you like to in private, my friend.  Just don't expect to talk about it in public without getting some flak.  

This debate for me is not about a thought police style crushing of private thoughts I find vile.  I object to such efforts on the practical grounds that it is both impossible and for the selfish reason that I fear that people would try to turn that power on my thoughts, in turn.  What this is about is rejecting these elements as a community when they see the light of day.

Fap away all you want.  Just don't expect us to cheer you on and validate your existence because you are a reject from the land of broken toys.


TGA

Quote from: Fritzs;257628I misunderstood my point... I've never said, that you have to accept everyone, if someone was playing maid in very sick sexual way at my table I would kick him out, because that's not accapteble at my table and I didn't forget to tell him so...

But at your home, behave as you wish as long as you aren't comiting any crimes.

Hang on - you're agreeing with the very first post i made to this thread. What the hell has been going on for the last 60 pages then?

Quote from: Fritzs;257628I misunderstood my point... I've never said, that you have to accept everyone, if someone was playing maid in very sick sexual way at my table I would kick him out, because that's not accapteble at my table and I didn't forget to tell him so...

But at your home, behave as you wish as long as you aren't comiting any crimes.

OK, I get what you are saying.

I still think its important to condemn the behavior in general in order to avoid having people think its condoned - both internally by gamers (so they don't head down that path, or don't start to think its OK to act out those impulses in real life) and externally by non-gamers (because let's face it, we're already have enough bad stereotypes, no need to pile on more).

Quote from: jgants;257619Why shouldn't we hold people to a certain, basic standard of human behavior?

Well, I don't want to get into the difficulties of figuring out what that certain, basic standard should be, but I will say this: even those who hold people to a certain, basic standard of behavior can decide that the certain, basic standard for fantasy/games might be different from that in reality. I think pretty much everyone here thinks you shouldn't kill people as a general rule, but not everyone thinks it's objectionable to do so in a roleplaying game.

Even in something like, say, boxing, there is a different expectation of behavior from those playing the game, and those not playing it. Now, obviously, punching people in the face [gloves or not] is not the same as raping babies, but the principle, I believe, applies to both.

Many people still think killing innocent people in a roleplaying game is evil, and shouldn't ever be done, but some people think it's harmless fun; those people who think killing innocents in a roleplaying game is okay do not necessarily believe that doing so is "promoting the killing of innocent people."

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;257639What this is about is rejecting these elements as a community when they see the light of day.

This

Quote from: Fritzs;257628I misunderstood my point... I've never said, that you have to accept everyone, if someone was playing maid in very sick sexual way at my table I would kick him out, because that's not accapteble at my table and I didn't forget to tell him so...

But at your home, behave as you wish as long as you aren't comiting any crimes.

So you actually agree with me.  Glad we got that straighten out!  


TGA

Quote from: Fritzs;257628I misunderstood my point...

Then explain it to yourself.

Quote from: Engine;257643Many people still think killing innocent people in a roleplaying game is evil, and shouldn't ever be done, but some people think it's harmless fun; those people who think killing innocents in a roleplaying game is okay do not necessarily believe that doing so is "promoting the killing of innocent people."

You just described one of my players. Well, not that there's much killing of innocents in my games....but he is uncomfortable with make believe killing, generally.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;257639This debate for me is not about a thought police style crushing of private thoughts I find vile.  I object to such efforts on the practical grounds that it is both impossible and for the selfish reason that I fear that people would try to turn that power on my thoughts, in turn.  What this is about is rejecting these elements as a community when they see the light of day.

But what is the light of day?  All we've got here are some AP reports which are tittilating at best.  Now say I were to play Maid and one of the players pushed super hard for the pedophiliac stuff, then I'd be very nervous and consider at the very least checking up on him (like asking his friends what's his deal) and if I knew him maybe approaching him about it.  So in that sense, I do agree that if we should address such an element (I don't see how "rejecting" it helps anyone) if it sees the light of day.

But I don't see any of that element here.  We have some hipster indie authors taking a Japanese game, cutting out most of the extreme elements, and bringing it to our shores.  Is there even a whiff of a real pedophile?

Quote from: David R;257648You just described one of my players. Well, not that there's much killing of innocents in my games....but he is uncomfortable with make believe killing, generally.

And until I came here, I really had no realistic expectation that people like this existed. I can't ever remember a player in our group that balked at performing in-character actions in-game that would be considered immoral out-of-game. But the first time this came up, there was a chorus of people who said, "No, my group doesn't ever kill anything but clearly evil monsters," which just blew me away. One of the greatest gifts this community has given me is an eye-opening perspective on how very very broad are the selections of playstyles out there, which I should have known, but had never really been confronted with.

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;257645So you actually agree with me.  Glad we got that straighten out!  


TGA

He has agreed with just about everyone who refuted his argument.

Maybe he should try politics. Such flexibility could be a career plus.

Quote from: Engine;257661And until I came here, I really had no realistic expectation that people like this existed. I can't ever remember a player in our group that balked at performing in-character actions in-game that would be considered immoral out-of-game. But the first time this came up, there was a chorus of people who said, "No, my group doesn't ever kill anything but clearly evil monsters," which just blew me away. One of the greatest gifts this community has given me is an eye-opening perspective on how very very broad are the selections of playstyles out there, which I should have known, but had never really been confronted with.

Yeah, it's all about who you play with.

While I'm very unreligious, I've played with a lot of strongly religious types over the years.  A lot of them are very careful about maintaining the same level of morality in the games that they do in real life.

Quote from: walkerp;257630Hurry up, Smithers!

And don't forget the soft nutsack-polishing cloth!

Let me see...

• Walkerp wants to exterminate the human race.
• Walkerp doesn't mind pedophilia in games he likes.
• Walkerp falls back to homophobic insults when he runs out of rhetorical gas.

I hope you're just trying to achieve some kind of Golden Trifecta of Trolling. Is this some kind of competition that you, Dominus Nox and Mythusmage have?

Quote from: Engine;257661And until I came here, I really had no realistic expectation that people like this existed. I can't ever remember a player in our group that balked at performing in-character actions in-game that would be considered immoral out-of-game. But the first time this came up, there was a chorus of people who said, "No, my group doesn't ever kill anything but clearly evil monsters," which just blew me away. One of the greatest gifts this community has given me is an eye-opening perspective on how very very broad are the selections of playstyles out there, which I should have known, but had never really been confronted with.

The really interesting thing about this player is that because of his beliefs - he's a good* Muslim brother - he manages to create some of the most interesting, complex characters. Of course they are always the moral compass of the party, but that's not really a bad thing, considering the kind of games, we as a group are interested in.

*by "good" I mean not infected with the dogma, intolerence, hate and sense of superiority, that religious types seem to exhibit.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: JongWK;257680Let me see...

• Walkerp wants to exterminate the human race.
• Walkerp doesn't mind pedophilia in games he likes.
• Walkerp falls back to homophobic insults when he runs out of rhetorical gas.

I hope you're just trying to achieve some kind of Golden Trifecta of Trolling. Is this some kind of competition that you, Dominus Nox and Mythusmage have?

In Walker's defense, he does actually talk about other things, I really wouldn't lump him in with Nox or Mythusmage.