Quote from: Kyle Aaron;257436It's possible to have contempt for A while also having contempt for B, but to be focusing on A. It's a rather communist idea that we should distribute our contempt equally among all.

True enough. I'm just pointing out that this is where keeping some of the freakin' perspective mentioned earlier comes in: there's a world of difference between a game in which a PC might rape an underage girl and a game which requires a PC to rape an underage girl, of a specific skin colour, in a specific manner, for a specific reward. That way lies Empire of Satanis.

Quote from: Age of Fable;257383The reaction to 'Carcosa' has been very different to the reaction to 'Maid' on this forum, even though they both seem to have the same kind of dubious content.

It could well be that most people here weren't aware of it until now. Give it some time...

Quote from: JongWK;257494It could well be that most people here weren't aware of it until now. Give it some time...

To be fair, Fable's comment seems to have been inspired by the glowing review and the initial chorus of "want" and "must have" and "very cool" which followed shortly afterwards.

Quote from: GrimGent;257479True enough. I'm just pointing out that this is where keeping some of the freakin' perspective mentioned earlier comes in: there's a world of difference between a game in which a PC might rape an underage girl and a game which requires a PC to rape an underage girl, of a specific skin colour, in a specific manner, for a specific reward. That way lies Empire of Satanis.

I agree.  Compared to the explicit garbage in Carcosa, at least the author/translator of Maid had the self-awareness of shame enough to try to hide his deviant fantasies behind the 95% of the game not based on 10 year old broomplay.  It's not much, but you are right in saying that Carcosa is in a whole different league.

TGA

Quote from: GrimGent;257479True enough. I'm just pointing out that this is where keeping some of the freakin' perspective mentioned earlier comes in: there's a world of difference between a game in which a PC might rape an underage girl and a game which requires a PC to rape an underage girl, of a specific skin colour, in a specific manner, for a specific reward. That way lies Empire of Satanis.

As fucked up as they both are, one at least recognizes the "evilness" of the acts while the other one is attempting to make it out as no big thing.

Quote from: JongWK;257494It could well be that most people here weren't aware of it until now. Give it some time...

This.

Quote from: CavScout;257536As fucked up as they both are, one at least recognizes the "evilness" of the acts while the other one is attempting to make it out as no big thing.

Let's put it this way... In Maid, even attempting to roll your Affection against another character's Will to see if you manage to seduce them is an optional rule. In Carcosa, one of the two available character classes routinely tortures, rapes and murders children. To echo someone from the Dragonsfoot forums, I know which one I could play with my grandmother.

Quote from: GrimGent;257542Let's put it this way... In Maid, even attempting to roll your Affection against another character's Will to see if you manage to seduce them is an optional rule. In Carcosa, one of the two available character classes routinely tortures, rapes and murders children. To echo someone from the Dragonsfoot forums, I know which one I could play with my grandmother.

That you'd play either one....

Quote from: GrimGent;257542Let's put it this way... In Maid, even attempting to roll your Affection against another character's Will to see if you manage to seduce them is an optional rule. In Carcosa, one of the two available character classes routinely tortures, rapes and murders children. To echo someone from the Dragonsfoot forums, I know which one I could play with my grandmother.

Also the designer of Carcosa (it could be argued) attempts to hide or at least associate his work with that of other more well respected (in certain quarters) designer(s). So much for recognizing it's "evilness" .

Regards,
David R

Quote from: GrimGent;257542Let's put it this way... In Maid, even attempting to roll your Affection against another character's Will to see if you manage to seduce them is an optional rule. In Carcosa, one of the two available character classes routinely tortures, rapes and murders children.

That's the hypocrisy I find so amusing about this. The objectionable portion of Maid is a single report of actual play; the objectionable portion of Carcosa is built into the rules from the ground up. Maid doesn't give you rules for fucking yourself with a broom, or rules for underage sex; it does provide a toolkit that can very easily lead that way if that's your intent, and does include this example of play that everyone's up in arms about, but the point of Carcosa is the existence of these thoroughly evil mages who do much, much worse in ways much, much more explicit, which are laid out clearly in the rules!

And yet there are hundreds of posts condemning Maid, and only a few bothering to condemn Carcosa, and to be honest, I really don't understand why that should be, although some of the suggestions already provided are compelling.

Quote from: Engine;257554And yet there are hundreds of posts condemning Maid, and only a few bothering to condemn Carcosa, and to be honest, I really don't understand why that should be, although some of the suggestions already provided are compelling.

Hey, I am doing my best here...


TGA

Quote from: Engine;257554And yet there are hundreds of posts condemning Maid, and only a few bothering to condemn Carcosa, and to be honest, I really don't understand why that should be, although some of the suggestions already provided are compelling.

I would second the suggestion that it more or less just came out, and isn't as well known yet.  Once things get rolling, and more people read the Dragonsfoot AP threads, I think the authour's shockedgycoolness will be detrimental.

Help, I'm drowning in moralizing and righteous superiority!

"What a nasty young man, Ethel!"
"He certainly is, Gladys! My father would have horse-whipped him!"

Quote from: walkerp;257557Help, I'm drowning in moralizing and righteous superiority!

I see the effects of sexual abuse on children every day.  This is not, by the way, an appeal to authority.  It is a statement that these issues impact real children in very real ways.  We should take that into consideration when we decide what to accept in our lives, in our social setting, and in our communities.

If you think that freedom is the same thing as freedom from the responsibility of having standards, then I don't know what to say.


TGA