Quote from: Fritzs;256998To sum this thread up: Some people, most notably Pundy, think, that they own the "RPG" trademark because they enjoy centrain aspect of it (the "trad" aspect), and therefore they need to protect it from harm. This stance is fucking wrong, no you don't own teh hobby, no one does. If you think any game can damage it, ok, nice, say it loudly and proudly, cos that's all you can do about it.

You're wrong. We do own the hobby, the regular gamers, because we built it up. We worked for it. Men like Erick Wujcik helped to make it what it is. Do you think I'm going to let you befoul his legacy, by just handing this hobby over to those who had no hand in making it, and have no interest in anything other than abusing it for their own purposes? Sorry, that's not my future.

QuoteAs for  "furry" argument. It's shitty and there is only one thing you can do about it, if it's really happening: write fucking blogs about it and argue about it at internet fora and cry, because if it's allready happening, there is no way you can stop it.

You just watch me, you meatsucking shitsack.

RPGPundit

On the plus side, if you GM a Maid LARP game, you could possibly get your house cleaned for free...though it may scar your soul...

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256923Except you missed the point entirely.  So let me say it plainly.  The pervert in Mulan had every right to be there.  

I disagree with this stance entirely.

The rights of a single pervert do not outweigh the rights of the rest of the moviegoers in that theater. Each non-pervert there should not have to put up with the antics of a single sick fuck, whether they notice it or not.

In the case of Maid or Poison'd, because they are questionable to fucked up content games, the knowledge that a gamer plays them should be enough indication to keep that gamer from being associated with your hobby if you give a damn about that hobby's reputation. Unless you go for the creepy gamer type in your game group

Claiming that we have to be tolerant of creepy gamers is only acceptible if you allow them to represent your hobby. I don't want my hobby represented, even partially, by creepy gamers because that reflects poorly on me and every other gamer who isn't creepy. The old saying goes, "One Oh Shit erases a thousand Attaboys." That applies here. A creepy gamer in public is an "Oh Shit", who will remain in the minds of the people far longer than the "thousand Attaboys" of the rest of us.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou're wrong.

Then prove it. Show me the licences, documents... nothing like this...? You don't own a shit.

Quote from: RPGPunditWe do own the hobby, the regular gamers, because we built it up.

Who are we...? You've allready excluded me, so... give me names.

Quote from: RPGPunditWe worked for it.

By playing D&D in your mom's basement...? Hard work for sure!

Quote from: RPGPunditMen like Erick Wujcik helped to make it what it is.

He wrote several games. He helped to make his games what they are. They quite possibly influenced several otjer game desingers, bnut there are players who has never heard about him nor his games.

Quote from: RPGPunditDo you think I'm going to let you befoul his legacy,

I am not befouling anyones legacy, actually I never said anything about him or his games in this thread.

Quote from: RPGPunditby just handing this hobby over to those who had no hand in making it,

Suprise: Mojority of gamers have never participiated at cons are are inactive o the internet, all that is interesting to them is their own little group ang game... si it wrong for these to play RPGs...?

Quote from: RPGPunditand have no interest in anything other than abusing it for their own purposes?

I think, I play RPGs for my own purpose of having fun... is that abusing...?

Quote from: RPGPunditSorry, that's not my future.

The future isn't dictated by ones like you. The future rolls over suckers like you.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou just watch me, you meatsucking shitsack.

How, are you going to sue "the swine" or what...

Quote from: Idinsinuation;257065Yeah but John West doesn't stop other crappier companies from utilizing those fish.  Some people can only afford that bottom of the barrel seafood.

Unlike eating, gaming is not a necessity. (Crazy talk, I know, but true!) So nobody has to game with creepy fuckers.

Quote from: IdsinuationAgain, I'm not talking about excluding them from your own group.  I too would do the same.  I'm rejecting the idea that we should have them excluded from the hobby of roleplaying games entirely.

You're imagining that there's a fixed pool of potential players, from good to crap, and that someone has to get the last one on the shelf. But it's not true.

In fact, there are many potential gamers who've never gamed. When invited to game, they'll consider it just like I consider it when invited to a party. Who else will be there? People I'll get along with? People who are weird or boring? And so on.

If we include the freaks, then that puts off people new to our group, or new to gaming entirely. If we exclude the freaks and only have sensible, friendly and sociable people, then that encourages people new to our group or gaming.

By driving the freaks from the hobby, we encourage sensible friendly people to join.

When John West rejects fish, that makes every other fishing company more careful in its fishing. It raises the general standard.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;257065I will not play Maid in my group, nor will I allow people, who want to RP such fetishes, to play with me in my group.  That does not however make it alright for me to assume that the entire gaming community should do the same.  That is not for me to say.  Let them have their own creepy groups full of creepy gamers if that is what they want.

I really can't say it any clearer than that.

Sure, and the only place I think you're disagreeing here is that some of us would like it if we took that just one step further and said "Let them have their own creepy label."

Really, we just need a label for Perverted Swine Lawncrappers that sounds relatively neutral.  it would be best if we could get them folk to adopt it for themselves.   Something the creepy gamers can rally around.

Like "Storygamers" or "Narativists" (yes that's right narativists, I'm totally willing to throw you under the bus).

Thus Gamers can be like Comic Book Fans, and merely socially rejected geeks, and the Euphemism For Perverted Swine Lawncrappers can be like Furries, and widely rejected and reviled by the mainstream of gamers.

Quote from: Kyle Aaronsensible, friendly and sociable people

If sensible, friendly and socialbe people read therpgsite, or pundy's blog, they would run away sceaming in terror and never return.

Quote from: Fritzs;257126If sensible, friendly and socialbe people read therpgsite, or pundy's blog, they would run away sceaming in terror and never return.

Which means that none of us here are sensible, friendly and sociable. So what are you complaining about?

But it's all relative; friendly, sociable and sensible are traits of degree. You or I may be unfriendly, unsociable and stupid compared to the general population, but we are still overall better than a creepy gamer.

Quote from: Kyle Aaronbut we are still overall better than a creepy gamer.

Ever seen creepy gamer...?

The Poobutt is lying through his teeth, Fritz. It was me and my stalwart group of stoners who built this hobby; roll by roll by altered pencil mark. Poobutt was too busy trying to get into Vampire LARPers' pants.

Quote from: Fritzs;257139Ever seen creepy gamer...?

Yes, and I have seen the negative effect they can have on other players. Haven't you ever heard about the Creepy Gamer Thread?

First impressions count in social interactions. The impression that a creepy gamer has on people new to the hobby, who do not have enough experience to realize that creepy gamers are a minority and not the majority, is that creepy gamers represent all of the hobby or enough of it that they are deemed acceptable by the hobby peer group.

Lets say that you have a group consisting of experienced gamers who has a creepy gamer join in. By accepting the creepy gamer, that group is giving tacit approval to the behavior that makes that creepy gamer, creepy. So if you've got a creepy gamer who always sexualizes whatever game play occurs, or who delights in juvenile gore (neck-rape the cabin boy's corpse!), or has a habit of bringing actual weapons to the game table, or constantly makes lewd advances towards other gamers there, or always "accidently" takes people's property without asking - then that gamer group is saying that this behavior is acceptable to them because they are allowing that player to stay in the group. This will eventually cause the game group to disband because people will only put up with so much bullshit in their social lives.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;257065I will not play Maid in my group, nor will I allow people, who want to RP such fetishes, to play with me in my group.

On the other hand, to me that sounds much like all the "I heard that he'd been playing Kult so I kicked the sick bastard out of my house" or "yeah, I don't let men play women or women play men, 'cause they're all doing it just to be kinky" or "I'd walk out of any game that features actual gods, of course, since as an atheist I can't condone nonsense like that" comments that I've seen crop up on gaming sites. That's their right and privilege, naturally, but it's still just going to make me shrug in a "can't please 'em all, won't ask him to play then" sort of a way. I get a fair share of grief for apparently not showing enough interest in sex, so there's no real way to win those arguments in any case.

Quote from: Fritzs;257126If sensible, friendly and socialbe people read therpgsite, or pundy's blog, they would run away sceaming in terror and never return.

800-1200 people a day disagree with you. Of course, you probably read my blog every day, what with your strange fucking obsessive hate-fixation on me, so I guess you might have a point in that not all those hundreds are decent people...

RPGPundit

In the end I can admit, I won't be welcoming perverts with open arms.  I won't be inviting them to play in my game.  Hell in the past at a party, I removed a pedophile from my apartment using his face to open the door.  The fact remains that although I may not like it, creepy gamers exist and I may have even gamed with a pervert in the past who kept his shit to himself.

I've never once encountered somebody who knew just enough about gaming to label it with a hard definition that included the creeps, the geeks, the working class folks and everybody in between.  It just doesn't happen.  I meet two types of people when I bring up my hobby.  Those who have played, and those who haven't played.  Never once have I got that look that says, "Oh.  You're one of those."  Roleplaying is one of those things that's either interesting to someone, or it's not.  People seem to think that we have a "reputation" and so far I just have never seen it.

Quote from: GrimGent;257162On the other hand, to me that sounds much like all the "I heard that he'd been playing Kult so I kicked the sick bastard out of my house" or "yeah, I don't let men play women or women play men, 'cause they're all doing it just to be kinky" or "I'd walk out of any game that features actual gods, of course, since as an atheist I can't condone nonsense like that" comments that I've seen crop up on gaming sites. That's their right and privilege, naturally, but it's still just going to make me shrug in a "can't please 'em all, won't ask him to play then" sort of a way. I get a fair share of grief for apparently not showing enough interest in sex, so there's no real way to win those arguments in any case.

Nah, I just meant in my own group.  What they do on their own time in other game groups is their business.  I really have thin limits having roleplayed plenty of taboo subjects.  However anything even remotely bordering on child porn or pedophilia is out without compromise.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;257203In the end I can admit, I won't be welcoming perverts with open arms.  I won't be inviting them to play in my game.  Hell in the past at a party, I removed a pedophile from my apartment using his face to open the door.  

Sound like an interesting situation.  How did you know he was a pedophile?