Quote from: David R;256783Well of course I'm not comfortable with it, you idiot. Didn't you read my reply to Engine ? Or is this more of the selective reading that's part & parcel of your dumb imaginary war.

Regards,
David R

Then why are you wasting time trying to defend it?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;256787Then why are you wasting time trying to defend it?

Where the hell was I defending it ? Again, did you not read my reply to kyle ?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: RPGPundit;256786No, David is either wrong or he's lying. It IS in the english version of the book.  Andy has claimed that he'll be removing it from "future versions"; now that he's gotten the attention he hoped it would generate and looks edgy enough.

GrimGent has given the source of this (which I think seems close to what I said). I don't lie (that's why I asked someone who knows more about it to correct me if I'm wrong) Lying is more your game.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: RPGPundit;256769That's where the Forge games are leading us to.

Dude, you are delirious. You think that something as unimportant as the Forge is leading the Forge somewhere. Are the Forge games magically controlling your stupid brain?

Not even D&D has the influence to lead the hobby nowhere. The hobby cannot be lead, you smouldering idiot.

For fuck's sake. I'm out of this shithole of a thread.

Quote from: jeff37923;256751Considering that there is a feeling of creepiness about Maid from all corners of the globe, you're attempt at marginalizing this opinion (which includes your own) by alluding geographic location is made of fail.

I'm not marginalizing any opinion, I'm disputing your claim that "moral outrage" will keep stores from carrying Maid, which you made here:

Quote from: jeff37923No, I'm afraid it is exactly as I am describing it. Books like Maid or The Book of Erotic Fantasy are not carried by stores because the store owner knows that they will not sell due precisely to the "moral outrage" that they will cause.That is why a store owner would not carry it.

Instead of debating the point, just ask your average FLGS owner like I did and digest the answer you get.

I am pointing out that your experience is far from universal on this point.  Why would stores which carry the overtly squicky anime/manga which inspired Maid refuse to carry the RPG itself?

KoOS

I hadn't realized how much this game screamed pedophelia.  I got the impression that subject was something that would be added by the players.

Quote from: King of Old School;256654Unlike cheating on your girlfriend, discrimination is morally neutral.  There are good and bad reasons to discriminate.  Attaching an inherently negative value to discrimination is a product of the kind of morally vacant, everything-is-equally-valid Precious Snowflake Thought that ruins TBP.

KoOS

No, not quite.  Precious little snowflake shit happens not because of a failure to discriminate, but rather because parents are too stupid to understand what discrimination is.  They think because their kid needs to be in a lower math class that it's discrimination which goes against the very definition of the word.

Discrimination is when you judge people as a group (based most often on race or religion) rather than their own individual merits.  So keeping all Maid RPG players out of the hobby would be discrimination because some of those people probably just think the game is funny, and don't actually RP any sex acts.

The creepy pervs have a right to their own game.  They have a right to play it at their own homes.  I have no right to stop them.  Keeping them out of the hobby is discrimination.  That's all I was saying.  Now if the players of this stupid game do their own thing at their own home it's cool.  Doesn't hurt me one bit.

If however they are actually pedophiles in real life then amazingly enough they deserve to be arrested, kicked in the teeth, or both even.

Judge people on their own merits.

Quote from: jeff37923;256756Here's a question, who here reading this doesn't think that Maid will attract creepy gamers?

Depends what you mean by "attract."  If you mean "will it bring in creeps who didn't previously play RPGs" then no, I don't (at least, not to any significant degree).  It's just not that high-profile to warrant such a concern.

If you mean "will it be played by preexisting gamers with creepy predilections" then yes (although I don't believe that these will necessarily be the majority of people who play Maid by any means).  The 'net is replete with such creepazoids, so arguments against their existence are pretty stupid IMO.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old School;256798I am pointing out that your experience is far from universal on this point.  Why would stores which carry the overtly squicky anime/manga which inspired Maid refuse to carry the RPG itself?

KoOS

So, a store that already sells to creepy gamers will not be bothered by carrying a product that appeals to creepy gamers, which is part of their target market. I can see the logic of that. I stand corrected.

Quote from: King of Old School;256487Okay, for the record: Maid isn't "about" 10yo girls in transparent maid uniforms; that is merely an isolated example of play that will (according to the translators) be removed from future editions of the game.  

Are they still selling the current edition, or have they recalled it and apologized for it?

Quote from: King of Old School;256487Okay, for the record: Maid isn't "about" 10yo girls in transparent maid uniforms; that is merely an isolated example of play that will (according to the translators) be removed from future editions of the game.  The vast, vast majority of the game's actual text contains nothing so perverse.

Aren't examples of play, included in a rule book, intended to show how the game is intended to be played? It would seem odd to include examples of "how not to play" in a game book.

Quote from: JongWK;256815Are they still selling the current edition, or have they recalled it and apologized for it?

Given their lack of actual remorse (more like "yeah, we can see why some people might not like that part so we'll cut it from the next printing") I wouldn't hold out for an apology nor a recall.  I expect they'll just sell through the current print and change it next time.

KoOS

Quote from: Engine;256777I maintain my view that what one does in fantasy isn't judgeable by the same standards as what you do in reality, but I must confess there are some elements of Maid which - judged by the standard of reality - are certainly quite questionable.

Except nobody's saying that the standards should be the same.  Where we disagree is your assertion that fantasy cannot be judged at all.  IMO that's patently absurd.  By your logic, I have no grounds for criticism if you fantasize about diddling preteens or lynching black folks or working as a concentration camp guard molesting internees* 'cause, hey, it's all just fantasy.

Well, fuck that noise.

Nobody has said that people who fantasize about these things should be held to the same standards as people who actually do these things, and you're misrepresenting the truth to claim such.  We aren't claiming the right to send people to jail for thoughtcrime.  OTOH, we are claiming the right to say "hey, your douchebag desires make you a douchebag, douchebag!"  If you choose not to participate, that's your prerogative but don't pretend that we're the Inquisition and you're some kind of Champion of Freedom.

KoOS

* Not Godwin, this one is from real life.  Look up "Max Mosley" if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Quote from: CavScout;256816Aren't examples of play, included in a rule book, intended to show how the game is intended to be played? It would seem odd to include examples of "how not to play" in a game book.

That's a pretty torturous leap of logic.  You must be one hell of a gymnast.

Examples of play demonstrate how a game can be played, not how a game must be played.  Surely even you're not too thick to understand the distinction, yes?

KoOS

Quote from: Fritzs;256646Kyle Aaron: Definition of "lover"... "One, who loves one another, especially sexual love"... especially=/=necessarily, so I thing it's OK.

(snip)

You can for example have 8 years old gangster in Shadowrun in you wish so.

Context, you moron, context.

Quote from: King of Old School;256820Given their lack of actual remorse (more like "yeah, we can see why some people might not like that part so we'll cut it from the next printing") I wouldn't hold out for an apology nor a recall.  I expect they'll just sell through the current print and change it next time.

So they don't mind making money out of it, then.