Quote from: Idinsinuation;256534He can ask them not to publish it, and ask people not to buy it, even ask conventions not to allow people to play it.

Actually, I think that would be taking it too far. Although if a convention were going to allow it to be run, I'd want that convention to understand the controversy around it and be familiar with the game itself.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513So yes maybe he's just sharing his concerns, which is his right.  Unfortunately he's using words that can be described as discrimination at best.

"We don't like your kind 'round these parts." is not the kind of phrase I wish to see abused at roleplaying conventions.  Eventually we weed out all the people that we feel are creepy in any way and what do we have left?  Other communities have tried it and it leads to inbreeding.  

You are correct, I am sharing my concerns and my words are discriminatory. I do not share the geek fallacy that we should be all-inclusive in our social gaming circles.

I don't think that shunning creepy gamers and other shitbags will lead to social inbreeding. I actually think that with their negative influences on social acceptability removed, there might be more people willing to join in to a gaming social group.

Quote from: Spinachcat;256537Hmm....so no Paranoia?

Again, satire and comedy. Different animal.

Quote from: Engine;256541You won't be alone: it's what most people do. We don't consider things, we don't apply logic to things, we don't seek out information to verify our opinions, we just judge, mostly subconsciously, and call it "common sense." I do it all the time. I guess the difference is that I try not to, and when someone points out that I'm doing it, I reconsider.

Which isn't to say you should do the same; being more like me might not be particularly appealing to you.

That would depend on if you brought a copy of Maid to the gaming table or not.

Quote from: jeff37923;256540And it isn't that I percieve Maid as a threat. I percieve Maid as an attractant of creepy gamers who I don't want to be associated with my hobby.

I perceive Maid as an attractant to anime fans - which I think it certainly is, moreso than a creep attractant - and I really, really hate anime. I might not like Anime Dude being at my table, although there have been some anime fans at my table that I haven't minded. But I certainly don't want to push the anime fan out of the hobby, because I think it's big enough for all of us.

There are some people on this site who play a kind of roleplaying I think is just stupid as fuck, boring, empty, and immature. I wouldn't want to sit at a table with them, no matter what game we were playing, because what they want is so very different from what I want. But those people hate me. It's not just that they don't want me at their table, disrupting their game, they hate me, as a person, for liking my style of game and not theirs. And I think that's just bullshit, and that's one reason it's so disturbing to hear you saying you want to push Maid players completely out of the hobby, whether they're playing anime-silly or hentai-creepy.

Quote from: jeff37923;256545That would depend on if you brought a copy of Maid to the gaming table or not.

Well, that won't be a problem, then. I cannot imagine playing such a game, but I'm not a fan of anime and its literary conventions, and certainly wouldn't be interested in trying to re-create them at the table. Eww.

Quote from: Engine;256546That's one reason it's so disturbing to hear you saying you want to push Maid players completely out of the hobby, whether they're playing anime-silly or hentai-creepy.

I can understand that postion and my own stance being disturbing to you. I accept that and agree to disagree on that point.

Maybe on future reflection I will find my position here wrong, just not today.

Quote from: jeff37923;256540Because it is my belief that if you allow creepy gamers into your games, then they will drive away the rest of the gamers who might have brought more than just creepiness to the game table. If, however, you like surrounding yourself with creepy gamers, then be my guest. Just don't complain when you find that nobody besides creepy gamers wish to play at your table.

Ouch.  Your prediction of my future is pretty painful.  Don't worry though, I have a full group and a list of 10-15 people who'd gladly join our game table.  We'll be doing fine when the Maid RPG heathens come to ruin the hobby around us.

You know when a circus or carnival comes to town people jump up and protest citing the obvious "fact" that carnies are sleezy and will ruin our clean little community.  It happens in my home town all the time.  It's the kind of thing you see in a retirement community, and it's sad.

It's discrimination.

Quote from: jeff37923;256540If you can't figure out why prohibition and keeping things that attract creepy gamers away, you're just plain fucked.

Why?  It's just society telling people they can't have something to pre-empt the negative things that come from it.  Alcohol brings in drunks and drunk drivers so let's just do away with it, even though a majority of people who enjoy alcohol are reasonable people who have a good time and don't hurt anyone.

How is it any different?  I'm not fucked.  I wasn't saying Booze=Roleplaying, I was saying Prohibition=Pre-emptive Censorship in a way.  Although if something as powerful as alchohol doesn't need such pre-emptive control, why would something as simple as RPGs need it?

Quote from: jeff37923;256540It is my hobby, therefore I take ownership of my opinion about it.

And it isn't that I percieve Maid as a threat. I percieve Maid as an attractant of creepy gamers who I don't want to be associated with my hobby.

Why?  You don't want them associated with your hobby and yet you don't consider them a threat?  I'm confused if they're not threatening then why don't you just let them be?  They aren't hurting you, according to your own words.

I'm not saying you're afraid of them, I'm saying you are afraid of the effect you think they will have on "your" hobby.  That makes them a threat to you.  If it doesn't then why do you care?

I'd draw a parallel to homophobia but you'd just think I was calling you one rather than seeing the similarities.

Quote from: jeff37923;256553I can understand that postion and my own stance being disturbing to you. I accept that and agree to disagree on that point.

Maybe on future reflection I will find my position here wrong, just not today.

Don't worry about it.  You're entitled to your own opinion after all.  I'd still game with you as you seem to have good morals and a passion for the hobby.  You just have to be willing to accept that your opinion here is founded on descrimination and be ok with that.  I won't judge you for it.  In fact if you can admit it's discrimination, then I will respect you for standing up for your views even if I think you're wrong.

Now if you start rounding up creepy gamers in concentration camps then I'll have to take a stand against you.  

Quote from: jeff37923;256553Maybe on future reflection I will find my position here wrong, just not today.

That's about the most responsible view to take, and I adopt it as my own, as well.

Quote from: Engine;256474Without knowing anything else about the person, it would be impossible to judge. You cannot judge someone's competence to watch your children based on a single criterion. It's a spurious argument intended to elicit an emotional response, a response not based on logic but rather on the same visceral emotional reaction I mentioned earlier.

Honestly, "high school debater" is an elevation.

I would say its pretty freaking logical to figure that someone who is a fanatic of a game where you can play a 10 year old girl-maid wearing a transparent uniform (never mind all the other stuff) might not be the best choice for babysitting your 10 year old girl, REGARDLESS of any other qualifiers.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256556It's discrimination.

You make picking and choosing who to hang out with to be some crime. Do you pick who you spend your time with or do you simply go by a "first come, first served" methodology? If anything but that, are you not practicing "discrimination" as well?

Quote from: walkerp;256477The bigger turn-off for me and most people I associate with in a gaming store is either the non-communicative, eye-contact avoiding young male who is far more concerned with maxing out his wh40k army or Magic deck than actually helping anyone or the monotonal know-it-all egomaniac who can't answer a simple question without going into a long detailed monologue about his personal take on the subject of the question.  

I think if we really want to help protect the hobby, we have a lot more work to do with those two than the few indie hipsters who want to buy a copy of Maid.

Yes, I agree with you that these are problems.
So shouldn't we be trying to avoid making things worse?

You can argue all you like that "hey, there are already mouthbreathing aspergers-cases social retard lawncrappers in the hobby!", and you would certainly be right.
That doesn't cancel out the argument that the sort of games the Forgers like to promote will only exasperate this existing problem, rather than do anything to help it.

RPGPundit

Quote from: CavScout;256559You make picking and choosing who to hang out with to be some crime. Do you pick who you spend your time with or do you simply go by a "first come, first served" methodology? If anything but that, are you not practicing “discrimination” as well?

Ah but I don't pick who I hang out with based on what RPGs they play, or what car they drive, or what music they listen to.  I judge people based on their actions and as an individual on a case by case basis.

Everyone discriminates.  I discriminate, but I am also able to admit that my discrimination never makes me right.  It's not a crime, but not being a crime doesn't make something right.  Cheating on your girlfriend is wrong, but it's not a crime.

EDIT: He's also not picking who to "hang out with."  He's picking who everyone else gets to hang out with, which is wrong.

Look I agree with him that Maid may attract creepy people, but that doesn't make me want to see the game gone.  I just don't care, I won't be playing it.

CORRECTION: Carcosa does have baby sacrifice and child sacrifice and cannibalism.

Hot Damn these rituals are freaky and nasty!  Many require Save or Die rolls from the Sorcerer and many have wicked side effects.   You could easily play a sword swinging barbarian in this world who kills sorcerers out of general principle.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256556It's discrimination.

Yes. Yes it is.

And I'm OK with that.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513Why?  It's just society telling people they can't have something to pre-empt the negative things that come from it.  Alcohol brings in drunks and drunk drivers so let's just do away with it, even though a majority of people who enjoy alcohol are reasonable people who have a good time and don't hurt anyone.

How is it any different?  I'm not fucked.  I wasn't saying Booze=Roleplaying, I was saying Prohibition=Pre-emptive Censorship in a way.  Although if something as powerful as alchohol doesn't need such pre-emptive control, why would something as simple as RPGs need it?

Your Prohibition analogy is too far of a stretch because I'm not asking for an Amendment to the Constitution against creepy gamers.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513Why?  You don't want them associated with your hobby and yet you don't consider them a threat?  I'm confused if they're not threatening then why don't you just let them be?  They aren't hurting you, according to your own words.

I'm not saying you're afraid of them, I'm saying you are afraid of the effect you think they will have on "your" hobby.  That makes them a threat to you.  If it doesn't then why do you care?

I'd draw a parallel to homophobia but you'd just think I was calling you one rather than seeing the similarities.

I consider creepy gamers to be an annoyance, one that this hobby can do without. I won't let the creepy gamers just be themselves because when people think about the RPG hobby, it is the creepy gamers that they use as the example. I do not want to grouped with creepy gamers as representatives of the RPG hobby.

In that, I agree that I am concerned over the effect of creepy gamers on my hobby.

As to your allusion to homophobia, that is just a cheap theatrical attempt to demonize my position. It grants you a well-earned Go Fuck Yourself.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513Don't worry about it.  You're entitled to your own opinion after all.  

I'm really not worried about it and I know perfectly well that I'm entitled to my opinion.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513I'd still game with you as you seem to have good morals and a passion for the hobby.

Words cannot express my relief...

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513You just have to be willing to accept that your opinion here is founded on descrimination and be ok with that.  I won't judge you for it.  In fact if you can admit it's discrimination, then I will respect you for standing up for your views even if I think you're wrong.

I'm fine with my discriminating opinion. It serves me well.
You are the one with a heartache over it.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256513Now if you start rounding up creepy gamers in concentration camps then I'll have to take a stand against you.  

Godwin.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256561EDIT: He's also not picking who to "hang out with."  He's picking who everyone else gets to hang out with, which is wrong.

I'm assuming the "he' you are referring to is me.

And as I've said above, I don't care if you choose to hang out with creepy gamers, just don't be surprised when everyone else leaves.

For myself, because that is the only person I can really speak for, I choose to be discriminate and intolerant of the creepy gamer or any other gamer who brings detriment to this RPG hobby. I'm perfectly OK with doing that.