Quote from: jeff37923;256411And if selling Poison'd or Maid or having those games played in public would drive away business from their store, then they wouldn't make money now would they?

Okay, maybe that's true some of the time, but do you think it holds true all of the time? I mean take for instance Tardy's. Seems like an everyday comic book shop right? They sell "classic" porn-old issues of everything from Playboy to Juggs, to Hustler in the same shop.

Does this mean I won't take my kids there? Not at all, my girls get their monthly Wonder Woman fix there, and my boy gets the occasional free Hero Clix from the proprietor, who is a pretty nice guy. (Once he realizes your kids aren't going to be allowed to run wild and act like animals.)

QuoteIt should be acknowledged that if you are running a store, that there is a kind of business that you do not want in a store. That is the customer who pays for material that will offend other customers into not spending their money at your store or who by their behavior drives away other customers. Pundit calls them Lawncrappers and that would be a pretty accurate name.

If the game attracts players who drive away other customers, then you do want those customers in your store.

You seem to be assuming that everyone buying this game is going to act like an asshole in public. A few? Sure, but that describes the buyers of every game or comic book. But all? I have a hard time seeing that.

I agree with you, and even the others that these games sound like their the kind of shit me and mine wouldn't  bother with-but I don't need to ban them, or regulate them. There just isn't a significant demand for this crap, nor do I foresee there being a significant demand.

Quote from: jeff37923;256426You'd have to talk to Fritzs about that. I think that the comparison between movies and games is tenuous at best.

Why, because the film industry is bigger?  I make the example to point out some people's repetative need to predict the end of things.  Whether it be the film industry, gaming, comics, the sanctity of marriage or even existence itself.  It's all the same.  There's always extreme thinkers preaching about the end times.

Hellfire is burnin' RPGs alive!  This is the end brothers and sisters, the devil has been published, the hobby will fall!  Brace yourselves for the evil man has wrought!

Quote from: jeff37923;256426And HoL isn't actually a game. It is a work of satire. Says so in the book itself.

Does that matter to the untrained eye, or even new gamers who don't realize what HoL is?  It has rules.  It has a supplement.  To the untrained eye that is in fact an RPG despite that it is also primarily a satire.  In this case it is a perfect example of something people thought would hurt the hobby and in the end it didn't.

Quote from: jeff37923;256426People who find the content offensive, which seems to be a large enough segment that it would effect sales for a FLGS. Just from this thread alone, you can see that the content is controversial. Most businessmen avoid controversy if they want to maintain their business because controversy rarely sells.

I disagree.  Controversy sells better than anything else.  Our entertainment industry is built upon publicity stunts and controversy.  Maid could just end up being Roleplaying's sex tape, although I doubt it unless they crank up the exposure.

Quote from: jeff37923;256427If moral outrage leads to lack of profitability then the results are the same, aren't they.

Maybe down in your neck of the woods people would know and care enough to protest, but I just don't see that happening here. You seem to be making the assumption that people will even take the time to look at these games, let alone read them.

Quote from: jeff37923;256407The harm would be if they tried to sell it or let it be played.

Well, I'm not sold that it would be, but perhaps more importantly, it wasn't, because they didn't. So it doesn't really qualify as evidence of harm, since it didn't get played or sold, and thus no harm occurred. It's another fine hypothetical example - "if they had, then there would have been" - but it's not really a practical example.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256414I'll take Pulp Fiction and Oldboy.  I doubt Wild Strawberries /Ratatouille will be hanging out with She's Got A Cum Fixation/Throat Gaggers #2, and I don't want to hang out with either of them.

Ratatouille rocks, fucker!  I have absolutely no problem having both Ratatouille (along with the rest of Pixar's output) and Oldboy (along with the rest of the Vengeance Trilogy) on my DVD shelf.

KoOS

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256431Why, because the film industry is bigger?

"Film" doesn't mangle up community and industry the way "Tabletop RPG" does.

Note: I don't agree with Pundit &ct.  But dismissal of the fact that community and industry in TTRPGs are one giant smear is silly.

Quote from: King of Old School;256437Ratatouille rocks, fucker!  I have absolutely no problem having both Ratatouille (along with the rest of Pixar's output) and Oldboy (along with the rest of the Vengeance Trilogy) on my DVD shelf.

KoOS

Retracted then, I've been in the same boat with my favorite cartoon.  *Looks at his copy of Emperor's New Groove sandwiched between Full Time Killer and Dead Alive*

I was thinking more of the target audience for Ratatouille rather than people such as yourself who might also like it.  Sorry.  This does make a good point though, not everyone who likes something can be pinned with a particular label.  Something that has been insinuated about the kind of people who might find Maid entertaining.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;256438"Film" doesn't mangle up community and industry the way "Tabletop RPG" does.

Are you sure?  In any entertainment industry with a community you will find the same arguments and blurring of terms.  I've made one short film so far and I'm already seeing hints of discussions very similar to the one we're having here.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;256438"Film" doesn't mangle up community and industry the way "Tabletop RPG" does.

I don't see that as all.  The difference is just one of scale.  But you don't think that controversies in film content don't resonate among the Hollywood and New York film communities?

Quote from: Serious Paul;256430I mean take for instance Tardy's. Seems like an everyday comic book shop right? They sell "classic" porn-old issues of everything from Playboy to Juggs, to Hustler in the same shop.

Does this mean I won't take my kids there? Not at all, my girls get their monthly Wonder Woman fix there, and my boy gets the occasional free Hero Clix from the proprietor, who is a pretty nice guy. (Once he realizes your kids aren't going to be allowed to run wild and act like animals.)

However, I'd bet that Tardy's doesn't have the "classic" porn (old issues of everything from Playboy to Juggs, to Hustler) in in the same room for everybody to see and ogle over as the comics. I'd bet he has those in a room in the back or behind the counter so that the underage kids can't get at them.

Quote from: Serious Paul;256430You seem to be assuming that everyone buying this game is going to act like an asshole in public. A few? Sure, but that describes the buyers of every game or comic book. But all? I have a hard time seeing that.

Actually, they could be the epitome of behavior and they would still drive away customers. It isn't mannerisms that people are finding offensive in this case, it is the content and context of what they are role-playing that is squicky. All it would take is one exclamation of, "I neck rape the cabin boy" or seeing Sailor Bubba play a prepubescant maid trying to maintain her purity in the face of hentai aggression would be enough to cause people to scatter from the store.

And to answer the OP's question: no, the "hobby" is not that fragile.

KoOS

Quote from: walkerp;256442I don't see that as all.  The difference is just one of scale.  But you don't think that controversies in film content don't resonate among the Hollywood and New York film communities?

I think there tend to be more steps between the production team of "Nailin' Paylin" (the porn-in-production intended to portray Gov. Palin) and the fanbase of the X-Files movies, yes.  They tend not to be discussed in the same venue or sentence.

This isn't true of RPGs.

Yes, a difference of scale.  Bigger is also different.

Quote from: jeff37923;256443I'd bet he has those in a room in the back or behind the counter so that the underage kids can't get at them.

If Poison'd and Maid have adult themes and content, I don't see why the game store owner can't simply do the same with them.

Quote from: jeff37923;256443It isn't mannerisms that people are finding offensive in this case, it is the content and context of what they are role-playing that is squicky.

Which is why you don't watch She's Got A Cum Fixation on a park bench with the audio turned up. If what you're doing isn't for public consumption, you don't do it in public. I wouldn't play our Shadowrun game in public, either.

Quote from: jeff37923;256443Actually, they could be the epitome of behavior and they would still drive away customers. It isn't mannerisms that people are finding offensive in this case, it is the content and context of what they are role-playing that is squicky. All it would take is one exclamation of, "I neck rape the cabin boy" or seeing Sailor Bubba play a prepubescant maid trying to maintain her purity in the face of hentai aggression would be enough to cause people to scatter from the store.

Things like this have never been roleplayed until now?  I find that rather hard to believe.

Vampire the Mascarade (just an example) has the same potential for bad public appearance which is why good players of that game know they should be careful how they act in public.

Porn fans deal with this all the time, they buy their products in public but generally keep the content private.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256449Vampire the Mascarade (just an example) has the same potential for bad public appearance which is why good players of that game know they should be careful how they act in public.

See: News "exposes" on Vampire Larp.  It had an impact.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256431Why, because the film industry is bigger?

No, because you experience a movie differently than you experience a RPG.

 

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256431I make the example to point out some people's repetative need to predict the end of things.  Whether it be the film industry, gaming, comics, the sanctity of marriage or even existence itself.  It's all the same.  There's always extreme thinkers preaching about the end times.

Hellfire is burnin' RPGs alive!  This is the end brothers and sisters, the devil has been published, the hobby will fall!  Brace yourselves for the evil man has wrought!

And this is where you go off the deep end into nonsense.


 

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256431Does that matter to the untrained eye, or even new gamers who don't realize what HoL is?  It has rules.  It has a supplement.  To the untrained eye that is in fact an RPG despite that it is also primarily a satire.  In this case it is a perfect example of something people thought would hurt the hobby and in the end it didn't.

HoL is satire, obviously and deliberately so. Poison'd and Maid are only jokes in spite of themselves. Big difference that.

Quote from: Idinsinuation;256431I disagree.  Controversy sells better than anything else.  Our entertainment industry is built upon publicity stunts and controversy.  Maid could just end up being Roleplaying's sex tape, although I doubt it unless they crank up the exposure.

So keep track of sales figures for Maid and get back to us on that.