My experience as a GM is there are definitely folks who don't like the lethal play (and other "old school" aspects like unbalanced PCs due to random chargen), even if they seem to initially buy into it.

As a player, while it can be a real bummer to lose a character, what keeps me going is vowing to do better next time.

But it's also key that smart play actually WILL make a difference. If the GM cuts off all the smart play attempts, players will realize they really can't win. And then the death toll loses appeal.

I prefer lethality in games. But I am fine adapting to the tastes of the group if more people want a less lethal approach. But I would say on the whole, this is something that makes OSR games more fun and interesting to me (at least the ones that embrace that aspect of the game)

Seems appropriate.


https://goodman-games.com/blog/2019/05/01/new-in-our-online-store-self-inking-rpg-stamps/

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1112045Yeah 5e is nothing as deadly as these other games I've mentioned. No comparison.

I'm glad other groups can make something fun out of it, like having a list on the wall. My list would drape across the floor, but we've played a lot of DCC funnels.

I like these games a lot, but I hate having to kill off characters now. Makes me sick at heart just thinking about it. It's been so long since I had a player who got into the spirit of it, and for a long time now I just feel as though everyone thinks I'm just punishing them or enjoying their "failure". I hate it. I'm just trying to run the game fairly and follow the rules. And it's impossible for me to try to make it fun or memorable or interesting if I'm cringing on the inside whenever I roll a critical hit. I guess I can't play any of these any more.

Are you sure that isn't because you fear on some level the player reaction? That the players are the type to not take it well? What if you had a bunch of players just like you who really get into the dying?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1112185Seems appropriate.


https://goodman-games.com/blog/2019/05/01/new-in-our-online-store-self-inking-rpg-stamps/

I got some of those for my convention games a few weeks ago. It was a fun touch.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1112194Are you sure that isn't because you fear on some level the player reaction? That the players are the type to not take it well? What if you had a bunch of players just like you who really get into the dying?

It's definitely that. At the Con game everyone was much more chill about it and I was more relaxed because of that.

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1112195It's definitely that. At the Con game everyone was much more chill about it and I was more relaxed because of that.

I can understand that. Some players just don't want the meat grinder. I came up with an in-character "respawn" mechanic for one lethal game with death at 0 hit points with some taint/madness attached as one way to work around the obstacle. Still dangerous, still death, but the character isn't lost forever. Even then the players fear dying, though I'm not sure if this cheapens it. It definitely changes the game though, where you still have your main PC who levels up over time, rather than a slew of sheets.

The other thing about the grinder aspect, is it goes way down after you get 3-4 levels.  Not that death loses its sting, but I suspect many who complain about a conveyor of character sheets aren't playing much past that point.  

If you have as many hit points as a heavy war horse it might sting your pride to run from a bad tactical situation blundered into, but you usually have enough buffer to keep your mistakes from becoming fatalities.  Magic turns into the primary "whoops your dead, Jim" threat; and that often comes from cannons made of glass.    

None of this will matter to people who want to navigate a story, and play RPGs similarly to the 80s arcade game "Dragon's Lair".  They're looking for the "but I made the correct choice necessary to exit that scene and progress" dynamic, where that's their primary obligation to the game.  They are not looking for a tactical skirmish war game wrapped up in S&S garb with a bit of roleplaying sprinkled in.

Quote from: EOTB;1112197None of this will matter to people who want to navigate a story, and play RPGs similarly to the 80s arcade game "Dragon's Lair".  They're looking for the "but I made the correct choice necessary to exit that scene and progress" dynamic, where that's their primary obligation to the game.  They are not looking for a tactical skirmish war game wrapped up in S&S garb with a bit of roleplaying sprinkled in.

  And IMO, the problem is that the latter is such a 80,000-lb. all-devouring wyrm in the hobby's mindspace that it channels a lot of the people who are actually interested in the former towards its gaping maw, leading to dissatisfaction, dissonance, and/or distortion of either the players' interests or the game's playstyle. But I speak as someone more inclined to the first; those who prefer the second are probably annoyed at all those people who don't want to play the game 'right' flooding into it and turning it into something it was never meant to be.

Quote from: Simlasa;1112059I want lethal dangers in a game because it often makes Players think twice before starting combats... gets them looking for other ways to solve problems, which is where the real fun is for me anyway.
I've played games that lacked any real danger and people fell into playing bullies... and idiots who never planned anything because they knew they could just rush in, guns blasting, and get away with it.
Plus, combats are boring if you KNOW you are likely to win regardless... just an exercise in dice rolling, dragging out the inevitable. Combat just isn't exciting unless there is some level of desperation/consequences to it... death/wounding being the most immediate.

Yup, threat of lasting consequences keeps people sharp. That is why I never use Zero Level NPCs. When you don't know who you are facing, you tend to mind your manners if you doubt you can take them.

(currently enduring a blackout, so only brief check and responses here. California is having a vicious case of wind. :eek: )

Quote from: Opaopajr;1112206Yup, threat of lasting consequences keeps people sharp. That is why I never use Zero Level NPCs. When you don't know who you are facing, you tend to mind your manners if you doubt you can take them.

(currently enduring a blackout, so only brief check and responses here. California is having a vicious case of wind. :eek: )

What does level 0 NPCs have to do with it?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1112208What does level 0 NPCs have to do with it?

Very simple, when there are no Zero Level NPCs there is far little PC bullying and unplanning PC idiots. If you have to guess whether you can take on the town guard (or other local authority) -- let alone anyone else -- you start to think and use caution if you want to survive. Belligerent lone wolves die for a very good reason.

Suddenly my fictional world threatens, and thus means something beyond a palette swap amid a PC's exploding awesomeness. The world cane explode back and erase your PC. You mean less. Get along. Mind your manners. Explore. :cool:

Quote from: Opaopajr;1112209Very simple, when there are no Zero Level NPCs there is far little PC bullying and unplanning PC idiots. If you have to guess whether you can take on the town guard (or other local authority) -- let alone anyone else -- you start to think and use caution if you want to survive. Belligerent lone wolves die for a very good reason.

Suddenly my fictional world threatens, and thus means something beyond a palette swap amid a PC's exploding awesomeness. The world cane explode back and erase your PC. You mean less. Get along. Mind your manners. Explore. :cool:

I like it in high fantasy settings, but doesn't that clash with low fantasy ones?

How would that clash in low fantasy settings? That just makes numbers and coordination more lethal.

Well, if everyone is a poor peasant then who is going to be a high level enough character to challenge PCs. There probably won't be any other wizards for hundreds of miles.

I think for me the deadliness of OSR games is not fun and I have no interest in playing a character that I dont even bother to name for the first five levels.

If you dont get upset when you character dies then it just means you probably did not really buy into the character in the first place, like when my Thimble goes to Jail in Monopoly.