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Is the D20 or the D6 the “best” dice to use?

Started by weirdguy564, May 30, 2023, 11:31:44 PM

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Mishihari

#15
May 31, 2023, 11:41:31 AM
I'll add that I'm also a fan of d10 - d10 as a base roll.  I like bell curves, and the zero mean makes a lot of that math easy and intuitive.  When you dig into using it a lot of the math comes out pretty as well.  I once got halfway through a game design using this mechanic but got distracted by other projects and never finished it.  Maybe I'll give it another look after my current one's done.

rytrasmi

#16
May 31, 2023, 11:47:54 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on May 31, 2023, 11:41:31 AM
I'll add that I'm also a fan of d10 - d10 as a base roll.  I like bell curves, and the zero mean makes a lot of that math easy and intuitive.  When you dig into using it a lot of the math comes out pretty as well.  I once got halfway through a game design using this mechanic but got distracted by other projects and never finished it.  Maybe I'll give it another look after my current one's done.
More like a bell triangle, but yeah, I like this idea.

How would you handle bonuses? d10 - d10 + Bonus vs. Target Number?
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Steven Mitchell

#17
May 31, 2023, 12:03:07 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on May 31, 2023, 11:41:31 AM
I'll add that I'm also a fan of d10 - d10 as a base roll.  I like bell curves, and the zero mean makes a lot of that math easy and intuitive.  When you dig into using it a lot of the math comes out pretty as well.  I once got halfway through a game design using this mechanic but got distracted by other projects and never finished it.  Maybe I'll give it another look after my current one's done.

I like the elegance of those types of systems, but in practice I don't like them in play.  I'd rather deal with 2d10 vs target than deal with d10 - d10 and negative numbers.  Or put another way, I find that I'd rather players in my games add modifiers on top of a roll that can go up into the 20's than have them subtract.  For me as a player, it makes absolutely no difference, but not every person's wired that way for repeated subtraction.

Zalman

#18
May 31, 2023, 12:56:48 PM
D12 is my favorite -- its easy divisibility is useful and I find the range aligns nicely across a variety of game elements. My current system is D12 based, but allows 2D6 to be used optionally instead.
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Eric Diaz

#19
May 31, 2023, 01:50:56 PM Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 01:56:24 PM by Eric Diaz
Each dice has its pros and cons.

D6 is enough variety, but I personally prefer the granularity of 1d20.

Fits well with 20 levels, percentages, etc. 5% chance of crit is good. Also, we are used to it.

d100 is nice for random tables, being instinctive (anyone knows what 40% chance is), and crits/fumbles on doubles (11, 22, 33 etc.), and you can even include damage in the roll without hassle (say, rolling 34 means 3+4 damage).

Due to CoC, I think this is what I'd use for a modern game.
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Cathode Ray

#20
May 31, 2023, 03:57:56 PM
2d6 or 3d6.  d20 has gotten so vanilla, and there is no weighted averages.
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Fheredin

#21
May 31, 2023, 05:59:41 PM
Quote from: Zalman on May 31, 2023, 12:56:48 PM
D12 is my favorite -- its easy divisibility is useful and I find the range aligns nicely across a variety of game elements. My current system is D12 based, but allows 2D6 to be used optionally instead.

I thought I was going to be alone in this regard.

The D12 is the die I would pick if I were to do a vanilla D20-style game. At roughly 8% per side, you can actually feel a +1 modifier a fair bit better than with D20. You can also use it for time of day or compass directions.

Wisithir

#22
May 31, 2023, 06:05:31 PM
It's not the dice, it's the system around them that matters to me. For d20 I like stat + skill vs DC, what I do not like is the feat/talent/ability/HP bloat, and I am not fond of classes. For dice pools I am more familiar with d10 than d6, so the latter is too reminiscent of Yahtzee. Is the best dice a question of 1dX vs 1dY, 1dX vs NdY, or successes in a pool?

Chris24601

#23
May 31, 2023, 06:19:47 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on May 31, 2023, 12:03:07 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on May 31, 2023, 11:41:31 AM
I'll add that I'm also a fan of d10 - d10 as a base roll.  I like bell curves, and the zero mean makes a lot of that math easy and intuitive.  When you dig into using it a lot of the math comes out pretty as well.  I once got halfway through a game design using this mechanic but got distracted by other projects and never finished it.  Maybe I'll give it another look after my current one's done.

I like the elegance of those types of systems, but in practice I don't like them in play.  I'd rather deal with 2d10 vs target than deal with d10 - d10 and negative numbers.  Or put another way, I find that I'd rather players in my games add modifiers on top of a roll that can go up into the 20's than have them subtract.  For me as a player, it makes absolutely no difference, but not every person's wired that way for repeated subtraction.
You achieve the same result by making it an opposed roll. 1d10+mod (typically your skill) vs. 1d10+mod (an opponent's skill or a task difficulty number). This gets you the bell triangle, but requires no subtraction in play.

Alternately 2d6+mod vs. 2d6+mod would get you enough dice involved for an actual bell curve distribution.

weirdguy564

#24
May 31, 2023, 06:22:16 PM
Quote from: Old Aegidius on May 31, 2023, 02:08:17 AM
One other big thing about using a single die for everything: you never have to explain which dice to roll to a new player. People don't think about it too often, but I onboard a LOT of brand-new players and one of the hurdles they face is remembering which dice to roll and which shape corresponds to which number of faces. d12 vs. d20 is a big confusion in particular.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of this fact.  Keeping it simple for the normies trying out RPGs is a real thing.  Dice types are not intuitive. 

I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.

S'mon

#25
May 31, 2023, 06:52:09 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 31, 2023, 06:22:16 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of this fact.  Keeping it simple for the normies trying out RPGs is a real thing.  Dice types are not intuitive.

I don't know how many times running D&D 5e I've said "DC 10" and the player reaches for a ten-sided die...
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Tod13

#26
May 31, 2023, 07:06:55 PM
Quote from: S'mon on May 31, 2023, 06:52:09 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on May 31, 2023, 06:22:16 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of this fact.  Keeping it simple for the normies trying out RPGs is a real thing.  Dice types are not intuitive.
I don't know how many times running D&D 5e I've said "DC 10" and the player reaches for a ten-sided die...
OK. I learned something new today. Don't play 5e and I had no idea what that meant.
I looked it up. LOL

Ruprecht

#27
May 31, 2023, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: Old Aegidius on May 31, 2023, 02:08:17 AMThe closest thing I can think of that uses the full polyhedral range are something like a usage-die mechanic, but I have big problems with that mechanic too, mostly around the probability of rolling a 1 compared with how frequently somebody is going to be asked to roll that thing. You also have to wonder how much it really is going to matter if the game doesn't clamp down hard on other aspects of the game like your gear encumbrance. If I can carry 4-5 chunks of supplies with a d12 usage die, it's not exactly super likely that I'm going to run dry unless we are rolling the hell out of these all the time.
Try using multiple D6s for your die chain. Either remove all die that roll 1 (and usage can drop quick) or only remove a single die no matter how many 1s are rolled.
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Ruprecht

#28
May 31, 2023, 10:28:22 PM
I always thought it was strange in Lamentations with all skills being d6 except combat being d20.
If d6 is better that might be a nice place to tweek.
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weirdguy564

#29
June 01, 2023, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: Ruprecht on May 31, 2023, 10:28:22 PM
I always thought it was strange in Lamentations with all skills being d6 except combat being d20.
If d6 is better that might be a nice place to tweek.

There are games that do stick to just one die type, including the D20. 

Granted, most are using D6's.  In fact most of the last few games I've read or played are all D6 and nothing else.   Mini-Six Bare Bones, Pocket Fantasy, Swords and Six Siders, and Dark Star.   

The only game I know that exclusively uses the d20 is the Omni System, specifically a game called High Medieval.  I'm no expert on the Omni System, so I could be wrong. 
I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.
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