I've had one of my players raise an eyebrow when I first presented my group with a roll-under system, but it started to make sense to him soon enough.

Opposed checks are a breeze using the blackjack method. You can also compare margins of success.

Quote from: The Butcher;731227Also I'm pretty sure we've already had this thread.

I apologize if we have. I used the search function, but I find it a bit finnicky and I may have missed something.

Quote from: Bill;731236One way I handled opposed rolls was to use 'making the roll by 1/2, and by 1/10th break points for how well one did.

For example, if one person makes a roll by half, he wins if the other guy did not make it by half.

Its fairly simple to note 1/2 and 1/10th at a glance.

This is not particularly useful since they may well both roll within the same margin. However, this *is* a valid method to determine level of success.

Quote from: 3rik;731226[pet peeve]
"Literally": the new apostrophe...
[/pet peeve]

Not making space, not an exaggeration or hyperbole: I genuinely did mean to say that, without exception, I've never been at a table using a percentile system where people weren't happy to go for a stretch without the dice and not a single one of Shauncat's objections are unique to percentile systems, or even especially pervasive within them compared to other types of system.

Quote from: 3rik;731238I've had one of my players raise an eyebrow when I first presented my group with a roll-under system, but it started to make sense to him soon enough.

Opposed checks are a breeze using the blackjack method. You can also compare margins of success.

Either margin of success or blackjack works for me. I'm running Pendragon at the moment, which isn't percentile but is basically BRP divided by 5 and with traits and passions tacked on, and it uses a blackjack-style system for opposed rolls which has really sold me on the merits of blackjack systems (the important one being that you don't have to wait while people work out their margin of success - simply consult the number, check that it's equal to or under the skill, and yer done).

The number of RL gamers I've met who disliked percentile roll-under enough to actually diminish their enjoyment of a game can be counted on one hand, and none of them are active roleplayers (online discussion / probability wank is a different beast).

When someone starts yammering on about "bell curves" and other such nonsense, it signals to me that they really don't get the point of RPGs and should be categorized a "backup" on my player roster. This has proven to be a 100% reliable indicator thus far.

Roll Under D100 is a great design choice because its accessibility by new players and they automatically understand the odds of success for any given action. Moreso, the speed of dice roll to determination of success / failure is automatic which helps to speed up gameplay.

But if it doesn't work for you or your players, that's fine too.

Quote from: 3rik;731244This is not particularly useful since they may well both roll within the same margin. However, this *is* a valid method to determine level of success.

If they both roll within the same margin, the one who rolled lower wins.

It can do both actually.

I agree with you Warthur, my complaints were not unique to d100 mechanics, and are not generally "table problems". Rogue Trader is the longest lasting campaign I've been in, and none of those were ever an issue we at the table had to deal with. I think I just wanted to come up with something outside of the "I like/disdain percentile roll-under" partisan reply.

Quote from: Bill;731254If they both roll within the same margin, the one who rolled lower wins.

It can do both actually.

So it's basically lowest roll wins, with success levels added. Not my preference but I guess it works, though I think it may fail to take into account the difference in skill level at certain values. I prefer blackjack or margin of success because it automatically benefits the player with the higher skill level.

I apologize for my ignorance, but what is the blackjack system?

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;731259I apologize for my ignorance, but what is the blackjack system?

Whoever rolls highest and still passes the check wins.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;731259I apologize for my ignorance, but what is the blackjack system?

Highest roll that's still below the target number wins (e.g. RQ6).

I agree, to a degree, with some of the potential issues people have pointed out.

But I suspect that a big issue is probably just that percentile systems have now been around forever and it's very hard for any designer to pass it off as new and exciting design.

As with others here, I will immediately say "Unknown Armies" did it best so far, though I have a nostalgic love for WHFRP 1st, despite it's warts.

I have no problem with roll under % as a concept, but I have had almost universal problems with GMs and those systems:  Want to climb up a ladder, on a dry day, in good light?  Roll your unmodified climb skill.... WTF!

Of perhaps a couple dozen GMs using such systems over the years, at best only two seemed to implement them in a remotely fun way for me.  And since I'm kind of a bell-curve snob as a GM, I seldom run d% roll under, though I have considered writing one that was implemented as a bell curve.

I do like that you can track fine amounts of incremental growth in a d% system, and that you can use the dice in so many ways, such as using the one's die for chance, doubles for extra stuff, and other tricks.  Or you can just round to 5% and roll a d20 and certainly come close enough.