Quote from: NathanIW;732920I think you may be missing the forest for the trees.  His point had nothing to do with platemail in of itself.



When you look at your character sheet and see a 30% attack stat, that should be your clue right there that you are not a combat god or a super hero warrior like you play in Pathfinder.  You are playing a different type of character, so I'd suggest putting on big boy pants and actually roleplaying your character rather than complaining about what he's not.

I could put on my big boy panties and roll along through the GMs crumby game, but I would instead do anything else, because that sort of game isn't fun.

When the only avenue of action I can take is the no die roll walk in the woods laid out by the GM as the only available course, I'd rather read a book.

Talk or Fail is a boring scenario. I've never seen a GM run that game well. That's why that sort of game is disliked by so many people.

I put on my big boy pants to go to work, not to hike through a boring afternoon of boring one direction gaming.

Quote from: NathanIW;732922I guess my point is that you don't know if you like d100 roll under systems or not because you don't seem to have any idea what they actually are.  A bad GM touched you in a bad place with one of these systems and you think that's what they are all about.

D100 systems suck because the nerds that run and play them get butt hurt when they get told the first thing to drop out of their pen is bad, so they can't fix it.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;732924When the only avenue of action I can take is the no die roll walk in the woods laid out by the GM as the only available course, I'd rather read a book.

So you never have actually played a d100 roll under game because they are simply not like that.

QuoteI put on my big boy pants to go to work, not to hike through a boring afternoon of boring one direction gaming.

Your next step is to say to yourself: "Maybe I'm not very experienced with these games and I've got it wrong and these people who have been playing these games successfully for over three decades might actually know how the game works in actual play while I am completely ignorant."

The fact that you are still stuck on "one direction" and "only avenue of action" shows you have absolutely no clue about how to actually run or play games like Call of Cthulhu, WFRP1/2, RuneQuest, Palladium or any other d100 roll under game.

As I said before, you think you know why you don't like them, but you've shown that you don't even have an idea of what they actually are.  You hate a figment of your imagination rather than a real approach to gaming that people actually do.

Might I suggest going and listening to some actual play podcasts using d100 roll under?  You might learn something about how they actually work rather than the idea you have in your head that's completely divorced from reality.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;732915Not by much.

Quote from: NathanIW;732927So you never have actually played a d100 roll under game because they are 100% not like that.

Your next step is to say to yourself: "Maybe I'm not very experienced with these games and I've got it wrong and these people who have been playing these games successfully for over three decades might actually know how the game works in actual play while I am completely ignorant."

The fact that you are still stuck on "one direction" and "only avenue of action" shows you have absolutely no clue about how to actually run or play games like Call of Cthulhu, WFRP1/2, RuneQuest, Palladium or any other d100 roll under game.

As I said before, you think you know why you don't like them, but you've shown that you don't even have an idea of what they actually are.  You hate a figment of your imagination rather than a real approach to gaming that people actually do.

Or an asshole referee, to be honest.  But as I said before, assholes will be assholes no matter what kind of dice they're rolling.

Nightbane, Rifts, and Heroes Unlimited are barely d100 systems. You use a 20 for most of combat and half of what happens is governed by automatic success or failure.

Some of these things are not like the others.

CoC for example. If I could think of a genera not to immigrate with a percentile roll it is that. The books are about a regular guy automatically passing every perception, information gathering, diplomacy and firearms check possible, only to decide at the end to automatically pass his fleeing check.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;732903Thirdly, that NPC isn't a fair match for a first level character and will probably be fighting the whole group if you pay any attention to the APL vs. CR rules in the case of the GM forcing an unavoidable fight, or can be avoided in a sandbox.

There's no rule in D&D that says a first level NPC can't or shouldn't have plate.

QuoteFifth, that isn't the same thing as a first level character having a sub 1/3 chance against a naked goblin half his own size, where no story or description elements identify a fair or good prospect fight.

So lets take other staple 1st level D&D encounters such as Hobgoblins (35% chance to hit), Giant Fire Beetles (30% chance to hit) or Piercers (25%).

So sorry, I don't see what you're basing your opinions on at all.  All of the earliest (and quite frankly the best selling) RPGs started characters out with low to mediocre skills. Its not a flaw, its a feature.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;732931CoC for example. If I could think of a genera not to immigrate with a percentile roll it is that. The books are about a regular guy automatically passing every perception, information gathering, diplomacy and firearms check possible, only to decide at the end to automatically pass his fleeing check.

Huh? Do you mean genre? Immigrate with a percentile roll? I don't understand any of that paragraph.

Quote from: K Peterson;732934Huh? Do you mean genre? Immigrate with a percentile roll? I don't understand any of that paragraph.

Sorry, I'm eating lunch and typing on an iPhone.

Quote from: Old Geezer;732930Or an asshole referee, to be honest.  But as I said before, assholes will be assholes no matter what kind of dice they're rolling.

I think it's probably more likely that someone more familiar with Pathfinder or other high-success/high-powered characters ran the game in Pathfinder fantasy super hero mode and everyone failed and died.  Just like when 3.x/PF players play basic D&D for the first time and all die in the first fight they rush right into.  If the player's don't get the basics of how the game works, it's even worse when the referee doesn't.

Though it simply could be an asshole referee. In either case though, we have someone evaluating a game that uses a certain mechanic when they're not operating the system properly.  Either by running it with a modern approach or running it as part of being an asshole.  Neither of these situations will give someone an accurate picture of *any* game.

Quote from: NathanIW;732922I guess my point is that you don't know if you like d100 roll under systems or not because you don't seem to have any idea what they actually are.  A bad GM touched you in a bad place with one of these systems and you think that's what they are all about.

I've gotta agree. This counter-d100 argument seems like either:

• trolling to rile up the Rpgsite natives
• one bad gaming experience with a GM who didn't know how to run d100 games
• or, general mis-assumptions about how d100 games are played.

Quote from: K Peterson;732938I've gotta agree. This counter-d100 argument seems like either:

• trolling to rile up the Rpgsite natives
• one bad gaming experience with a GM who didn't know how to run d100 games
• or, general mis-assumptions about how d100 games are played.

No, no, I think I'm starting to get FS' point - clearly a game in which you need to roll a 16 or better to hit on d20 is much better and more fair to the players than a game in which you need to roll 25 or less on d%.

I can't understand why I didn't see this sooner.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;732931CoC for example. If I could think of a genera not to immigrate with a percentile roll it is that. The books are about a regular guy automatically passing every perception, information gathering, diplomacy and firearms check possible, only to decide at the end to automatically pass his fleeing check.

I'm going to assume you mean to say that emulating the genre of cosmic horror is one that is particularly not compatible with a percentile roll system.

This may come as a shock, but Call of Cthulhu play isn't about producing a genre story through play.  It is not about story or plot creation where you make Lovecraftian fiction through play.  It's about having a traditional RPG investigation set in the backdrop of the Cthulhu Mythos.  Playing an investigation RPG adventure, not the story or plot or genre emulation.

If you want a game meant to produce genre fiction through play, I would suggest Trail of Cthulhu over Call of Cthulhu (even if ToC turned out to be not my cup of tea).  If you were to compare and contrast the two games in actual play, you might start to get an insight into how a d100 roll under system produces successful play and how it differs from what you think it is about.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;732940No, no, I think I'm starting to get FS' point - clearly a game in which you need to roll a 16 or better to hit on d20 is much better and more fair to the players than a game in which you need to roll 25 or less on d%.

I can't understand why I didn't see this sooner.

It's all so simple!  I don't know why I didn't see it sooner.  And needing the 16 on a d20 rather than 25 or less on a d100 means that there's no railroading!  We won't be trappd in a "talk or fail" railroad any more thanks to the dice we are using.

It's all so clear now.

I'll get straight to something that's going to blow some people's minds here but ... you have 1-in-6 chance as a human to detect a secret door in O/AD&D. OMG! What the fuck is this game for griefers? What the hell?