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Is OSE now the Undisputed Champ of the OSR?

Started by Persimmon, July 19, 2022, 10:50:09 PM

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GhostNinja

#135
April 02, 2023, 05:43:13 PM
I got OSE because I wanted OSR and it checked all the right boxes.  I am sure there are other good OSR books out there, but OSE just hit the spot for me.
Ghostninja

Gegilles

#136
April 02, 2023, 10:13:13 PM
I dislike digest-sized books, gaps in layout, and internally inconsistent art.

Baron

#137
April 02, 2023, 10:19:22 PM
Quote from: Timothe on April 02, 2023, 08:11:10 AM
I think that if Drive-Thru would make Basic and Expert D&D Print-on-Demand the retroclones would not be as popular.

I have never understood the appeal of retroclones. Something that offers something significantly different, sure. But not just retyping someone else's work. And I can make my own house rule tweaks.

OTOH, the original point was so you could publish adventures and settings and label them "compatible with OSRIC," instead of risking corporate wrath. I understand that too. But you only need one retroclone to allow for publishing.

To each their own. <shrug>

Persimmon

#138
April 03, 2023, 12:11:30 AM
Quote from: Baron on April 02, 2023, 10:19:22 PM
Quote from: Timothe on April 02, 2023, 08:11:10 AM
I think that if Drive-Thru would make Basic and Expert D&D Print-on-Demand the retroclones would not be as popular.

I have never understood the appeal of retroclones. Something that offers something significantly different, sure. But not just retyping someone else's work. And I can make my own house rule tweaks.

OTOH, the original point was so you could publish adventures and settings and label them "compatible with OSRIC," instead of risking corporate wrath. I understand that too. But you only need one retroclone to allow for publishing.

To each their own. <shrug>

I would say, convenience, formatting, and organization play a major role.  For example, I like having B/X together in one digest-sized book.  Easy to access charts makes it even better.  Hence the appeal of OSE for me.

With Swords & Wizardry, you get it all in one book, with a few other conveniences and changes, like the single saving throw.  Hell, even having XP with the monster stat blocks is an improvement over AD&D.

On the other hand, I find OSRIC badly written and poorly organized and presented.  So I prefer my original AD&D books over that.

Persimmon

#139
April 03, 2023, 12:15:21 AM
Quote from: Gegilles on April 02, 2023, 10:13:13 PM
I dislike digest-sized books, gaps in layout, and internally inconsistent art.

Are you still going to release your own game and if so, when?

GhostNinja

#140
April 03, 2023, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: Baron on April 02, 2023, 10:19:22 PM
I have never understood the appeal of retroclones. Something that offers something significantly different, sure. But not just retyping someone else's work. And I can make my own house rule tweaks.

For me I got OSE because its all of the rules in one place, put together nicely and well explained.

AD&D 1st edition was horrible because it was so poorly laid out.   I would rather spend the money on a well put together retroclone then use old poorly laid out material.  Makes things easier.
Ghostninja

Brad

#141
April 03, 2023, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: Gegilles on April 02, 2023, 10:13:13 PM
I dislike digest-sized books, gaps in layout, and internally inconsistent art.

When it was called still B/X Essentials, it was a fantastic resource for playing B/X; basically a reference. Then they added all that fucking art and padded the books to such a degree it's obnoxious. While the digest sized doesn't bother me, all that damn superfluous art certainly does. Like do you really need a two-page full-color picture depicting some dude selling gems?
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

Gegilles

#142
April 03, 2023, 10:29:38 AM
This is the logic of a player not a designer.

Quote from: Baron on April 02, 2023, 10:19:22 PM
Quote from: Timothe on April 02, 2023, 08:11:10 AM
I think that if Drive-Thru would make Basic and Expert D&D Print-on-Demand the retroclones would not be as popular.

I have never understood the appeal of retroclones. Something that offers something significantly different, sure. But not just retyping someone else's work. And I can make my own house rule tweaks.

OTOH, the original point was so you could publish adventures and settings and label them "compatible with OSRIC," instead of risking corporate wrath. I understand that too. But you only need one retroclone to allow for publishing.

To each their own. <shrug>

Gegilles

#143
April 03, 2023, 10:31:53 AM
Let's just be honest, the art is dreadful.

There is no internal consistency. The art does not reflect the game style or game play.

I hate 4E, but the art reflects how the game is supposed to be played.

This is not, in any way, a slight on the guys, I think they are great and have done a good job forwarding OSR gaming.

Quote from: Brad on April 03, 2023, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: Gegilles on April 02, 2023, 10:13:13 PM
I dislike digest-sized books, gaps in layout, and internally inconsistent art.

When it was called still B/X Essentials, it was a fantastic resource for playing B/X; basically a reference. Then they added all that fucking art and padded the books to such a degree it's obnoxious. While the digest sized doesn't bother me, all that damn superfluous art certainly does. Like do you really need a two-page full-color picture depicting some dude selling gems?

Persimmon

#144
April 03, 2023, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Brad on April 03, 2023, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: Gegilles on April 02, 2023, 10:13:13 PM
I dislike digest-sized books, gaps in layout, and internally inconsistent art.

When it was called still B/X Essentials, it was a fantastic resource for playing B/X; basically a reference. Then they added all that fucking art and padded the books to such a degree it's obnoxious. While the digest sized doesn't bother me, all that damn superfluous art certainly does. Like do you really need a two-page full-color picture depicting some dude selling gems?

I'm mixed on the OSE art, but what is off-putting (and rather amazing) is how Gavin has managed to just keep re-packaging the same product for a decade and it sells out every time.  Different covers, boxed sets, five little books vs. the rules tome, etc.  I have the Classic Fantasy Rules Tome and the two Advanced Fantasy Rules tomes.  But I don't think I'll ever need another iteration of OSE.  But somehow he just keeps churning out variant versions and raising increasingly greater sums on KS, which is what prompted this thread in the first place.

blackstone

#145
April 03, 2023, 10:42:02 AM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: Baron on April 02, 2023, 10:19:22 PM
I have never understood the appeal of retroclones. Something that offers something significantly different, sure. But not just retyping someone else's work. And I can make my own house rule tweaks.



AD&D 1st edition was horrible because it was so poorly laid out.   

You take that back!  >:(

I'm kidding...

maybe.
1. I'm a married homeowner with a career and kids. I won life. You can't insult me.

2. I've been deployed to Iraq, so your tough guy act is boring.

Persimmon

#146
April 03, 2023, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 10:42:02 AM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: Baron on April 02, 2023, 10:19:22 PM
I have never understood the appeal of retroclones. Something that offers something significantly different, sure. But not just retyping someone else's work. And I can make my own house rule tweaks.



AD&D 1st edition was horrible because it was so poorly laid out.   

You take that back!  >:(

I'm kidding...

maybe.

This is a funny complaint, because I can't stand OSRIC due to its crappy layout and presentation, which some folks inexplicably praise.  But AD&D makes perfect sense to me, probably because I learned it as a kid.  We just taught each other as different kids in our gaming circle picked up the books and we figured out how to do it. 

Gegilles

#147
April 03, 2023, 11:05:38 AM
OSRIC was intended as a ruleset to publish from, not a table gaming book.

GhostNinja

#148
April 03, 2023, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 10:42:02 AM

You take that back!  >:(

I'm kidding...

maybe.

The fact that character options weren't all in the PHB but you actually had to consult the DM's handbook just to finish your character.   That's pretty bad.

But then, people talk how bad Gary Gygax's organizational skills were.  Made great stuff, but like every human he had flaws.
Ghostninja

Persimmon

#149
April 03, 2023, 12:54:25 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 10:42:02 AM

You take that back!  >:(

I'm kidding...

maybe.

The fact that character options weren't all in the PHB but you actually had to consult the DM's handbook just to finish your character.   That's pretty bad.

But then, people talk how bad Gary Gygax's organizational skills were.  Made great stuff, but like every human he had flaws.

I assume you mean the saving throws & combat matrices?  Pretty much everything else is in the PHB.  For me, the annoying thing was having the monster XP charts in the DMG, not the Monster Manual.  And the xp per HP thing, which C&C has kept, was one change I really liked with later editions and retroclones.  That really bogs things down.  But remember, the point was to spread the game out into 3 books. 

But yeah, as I've stated frequently around here, my overwhelming preference these days is for everything in one book and I don't care how thick it is.  Hence, when Hyperborea released a new edition in two volumes, I checked out.
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