In another thread somebody posted the idea that railroads are for lazy players. This is something I've not come across before. Normally we'd say railroading is a GM failure. They've negatively affected the player experience by pushing their sub-par want to be novelist thing. Now it may be a player problem.

I'm not sure I'm keen on the idea that a hobby should deride people for being lazy. It's supposed to be a fun thing. So is a lazy Sunday afternoon of RPGs a bad thing?

No, it's not wrong unless it's forced. If the players see the train and hop aboard, then it's fine. I'd suggest there be several stops where they can get off (or at least switch trains), but some groups like being pulled along by fate and some GMs benefit from the increased predictability and focus in their prep. Again, so long as players and GM are both in harmony, it's not a bad thing.

Quote from: Garry G;1144405In another thread somebody posted the idea that railroads are for lazy players. This is something I've not come across before. Normally we'd say railroading is a GM failure. They've negatively affected the player experience by pushing their sub-par want to be novelist thing. Now it may be a player problem.

I'm not sure I'm keen on the idea that a hobby should deride people for being lazy. It's supposed to be a fun thing. So is a lazy Sunday afternoon of RPGs a bad thing?

I don't think laziness should be associated with fun. Some fun things take a lot of work. Painting up a miniatures army, prepping for a miniatures tournament, sometimes playing D&D takes work and that too can be fun.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1144408I don't think laziness should be associated with fun. Some fun things take a lot of work. Painting up a miniatures army, prepping for a miniatures tournament, sometimes playing D&D takes work and that too can be fun.

Oh you can certainly take a high-energy approach to RPGs, but I don't think that necessarily makes you better at/for the hobby than a "lazy" casual player. Sometimes they may actually be more fun and have more fun too--and that's really the only meaningful measure of success in playing RPGs

It's worse than wrong, but I detest auto-win games.  

It's utterly lame, but it's been the default for Organized Play for so long, its no surprise its become effectively the "official" way to play WotC's DumDums & DiceRolling.

Four hour convention slots do lean toward the railroady as you need a beginning, middle and end to happen at that session. As a GM, I want to be surprised too so I encourage as much player decision making as possible and I make sure I have have plenty to alternate events planned with zero attachment to the outcome.

For me, its tremendous fun when players so used to railroading find out that my NPCs lied to them. I also like random encounters to happen because now there's no railroad option for me either, just new branches.

There are different versions of the "lazy + casual" gamer.

It think its important we define these terms. They're not the same thing.

One of my favorite players was somebody who never read a RPG book, never owned any dice or minis, never was interested in RPG forums or even chatting about the game between sessions, but he was absolutely proactive during the game session and thought railroads were beyond boring. It was all about the action/reaction inside the setting and the immersion. He was what educators used to call an "audio/kinesthetic learner" so he loved RPGs for the social aspects, but sitting down for long periods wasn't fun. Unsurprisingly, he was a great LARPer.

Kyle Aaron would have loved him because he ALWAYS brought munchies and threw in for pizza.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1144408I don't think laziness should be associated with fun.

Is this literal fun-policing? I'm a guy that mostly gets fun through effort, but this is silly.

You guys ain't trying hard enough. When the DM says "The maid at the inn hands you a note, saying that a cloaked man left it at the desk for you. The note reads 'Meet me at the docks at sundown, regarding a matter of mutual profitability. Signed: A Friend.'" You're supposed to say, "I crumple the note and toss it into the fireplace, then head over to the stables and take a cart to the next town, or sign up for guard duty for the next trading caravan leaving, if there is one." Anything else would be lazy role-playing and railroading.

Don't let that bastard string you along. Throw a curveball at him every chance you get.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1144418Is this literal fun-policing? I'm a guy that mostly gets fun through effort, but this is silly.

Nope. I'm saying that laziness isn't a necessary component of having fun.

I've done that to GMs! And I've had it done to me!

I had the mysterious cloaked figure appear from behind a shadowy corner where they decided to go and declare "Excellent! You passed my test. Now, do not follow me!"

Of course...they followed him.

Quote from: Garry G;1144405I'm not sure I'm keen on the idea that a hobby should deride people for being lazy. It's supposed to be a fun thing. So is a lazy Sunday afternoon of RPGs a bad thing?

If everyone is "on board" with a "railroad" approach to play and is having fun then I don't see any reason to criticize. It's not a style of play that I enjoy (not as a DM, and *definitely* not as a player), but I've got no problem with some other group embracing it, if that's what they like.

I would say to put me down for lazy fun but it does seem like a lot of effort.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1144439If everyone is "on board" with a "railroad" approach to play and is having fun then I don't see any reason to criticize. It's not a style of play that I enjoy (not as a DM, and *definitely* not as a player), but I've got no problem with some other group embracing it, if that's what they like.

A lot of people simply don't want a game to feel like homework. I occasionally see condescension in wargaming toward generic rulesets that aren't very complicated or do not have a lot of historical details. Some people just want to throw dice on a table and push toy soldiers around, I can see the appeal to lower effort modules/railroad type games for roleplaying.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1144431I've done that to GMs! And I've had it done to me!

I had the mysterious cloaked figure appear from behind a shadowy corner where they decided to go and declare "Excellent! You passed my test. Now, do not follow me!"

Of course...they followed him.

Ima have to remember that for when they pull that on me. Mysterious cloaked figures can materialize out of any shadow and are masters of reverse psychology.

Quote from: Cigalazade;1144444I occasionally see condescension in wargaming toward generic rulesets that aren't very complicated or do not have a lot of historical details.

I guess I can understand that, as I tend to favor more specific or complicated (although not super-complicated) wargame rules. While I don't intend any condescension, I wouldn't be shy about saying "I like this" and "I don't like that." In my experience, stating a preference like that can often be read as condescension (or even hostility), especially online, and especially these days.

QuoteSome people just want to throw dice on a table and push toy soldiers around, I can see the appeal to lower effort modules/railroad type games for roleplaying.

Sure; everyone should play what they like.