Quote from: Benoist;651517No. It's gleichman. Come on, everyone should know his schtick by now. Could we keep on talking about the topic and not him?

Of course, but even by his usual drunken Irishman style, this was a full blown Reefer Madness combined with bottom of Johnny Walker Black Label with a spice of two shots of Dębowa.



I somewhat think that this lack of system experimentation is more of an American thing, where D&D always held strongest stronghold. In the rest of the Western world, you had D&D coming alongside first as a rare import, than there was local variants from people who learnt RPGs and either loved D&D but wanted their version, or disagreed with D&D, before the TSR/WoTC arrived with the product.

Quote from: gleichman;651514It was real enough, although you'll never see it from where you've taken yourself.

BTW, I was trying for a purple prose award because otherwise it would have just being a boring repeat of what's already been written. I hope I won.

What is purple prose?

Quote from: Bill;651520What is purple prose?

Overnarrated writing.

Quote from: Bill;651520What is purple prose?

"In literary criticism, purple prose is written prose that is so extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw excessive attention to itself. Purple prose is sensually evocative beyond the requirements of its context. It may also employ certain rhetorical effects such as exaggerated sentiment or pathos in an attempt to manipulate a reader's response."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_prose

I'm actually quite prone to it I'm afraid, it's very fun. Bloody Stupid Johnston is going to be rather upset to find out that of the 262 page book he ordered, 249 pages are... oh wait. Maybe I'm thinking of something else. Oh well, never mind.

I've never had any problem with my groups trying new stuff.

Quote from: Rincewind1;651518Of course, but even by his usual drunken Irishman style

Oi! We're noted for being charming, witty, laid back and occasionally horribly violent, not procrastinating about the morals of relativity.

Quote from: Rincewind1;651518I somewhat think that this lack of system experimentation is more of an American thing, where D&D always held strongest stronghold. In the rest of the Western world, you had D&D coming alongside first as a rare import, than there was local variants from people who learnt RPGs and either loved D&D but wanted their version, or disagreed with D&D, before the TSR/WoTC arrived with the product.

Funny, now that you mention it I have noticed a trace of this, but not from direct experience.

Perhaps I'm biased though. I did prefer the U.K.'s gaming culture in general, and I say that as someone who dislikes a lot of other U.K. things

Quote from: Rincewind1;651518I somewhat think that this lack of system experimentation is more of an American thing, where D&D always held strongest stronghold.

Nah.

In the 70s and 80s there was a rush of experimentation and to some degree it continued even into the 90s. It really didn't end until designers could jump on the OGL bandwagon and make more money.

Also so much of that experimentation turned out so poorly that people in general gave up on it and we have today's accepted idea that 'all systems suck' and there's nothing to do about it. May as well play OD&D.

And lastly, many people became lazy or started that way.

In combination these factors effectively killed experimentation in RPG design (and thus groups) except for stuff like the Forge. Everything else is just old stuff warmed over (like FATE and Dark Heresy).

Now this may or may not be more impactful in the States, it is interesting for example that most of the people who picked up a copy of my homegrown rules (that aren't members of my groups) are from other countries.

Quote from: The Traveller;651526Oi! We're noted for being charming, witty, laid back and occasionally horribly violent, not procrastinating about the morals of relativity.

Well, I can't blame everything on Russians, Germans or Brits, can I? At least when they want to portray an Irishman in Sopranos, they get a legitimate one. I laughed my ass off the accent of the actress playing the Polish maid.

Quote from: Vegetable Protein;651535Funny, now that you mention it I have noticed a trace of this, but not from direct experience.

Perhaps I'm biased though. I did prefer the U.K.'s gaming culture in general, and I say that as someone who dislikes a lot of other U.K. things

I think it has more to do with the notion that when RPGs arrived in Europe, a lot of them did at the same time.

Quote from: gleichman;651537Nah.

In the 70s and 80s there was a rush of experimentation and to some degree it continued even into the 90s. It really didn't end until designers could jump on the OGL bandwagon and make more money.

Also so much of that experimentation turned out so poorly that people in general gave up on it and we have today's accepted idea that 'all systems suck' and there's nothing to do about it. May as well play OD&D.

And lastly, many people became lazy or started that way.

In combination these factors effectively killed experimentation in RPG design (and thus groups) except for stuff like the Forge. Everything else is just old stuff warmed over (like FATE and Dark Heresy).

Now this may or may not be more impactful in the States, it is interesting for example that most of the people who picked up a copy of my homegrown rules (that aren't members of my groups) are from other countries.

I'll be damned, and for some part, agree with you, minus drop the condescension and the usual thingsidontlike.jpg.

Part of the problem is, though, that we also have designers to blame. Rather than try and refine their systems, they usually tried to reinvent the engine that drove their games to work.

Quote from: Bill;651520What is purple prose?

Writing that gives you a bloodflood in your lower helmet.

Quote from: Rincewind1;651545

I think it has more to do with the notion that when RPGs arrived in Europe, a lot of them did at the same time.

Very true.
 
I remember discovering rpgs by wandering into the original Game Centre shop, just off of London's Oxford Street around 1979 or so. It was a very small store, but the number of different games on display would put a number of today's larger games stores (those few that exist) to shame. D&D was just one among many, albeit with a large following.
 
I bought T&T because it was cheaper (I was skint then) and because of the solos (I could learn the game easily before I tried it out on my mates). I don't think D&D achieved quite the dominance in Europe that it appears to have in the US.

Quote from: gleichman;651537... It really didn't end until designers could jump on the OGL bandwagon and make more money... In combination these factors effectively killed experimentation in RPG design (and thus groups)...

So Dancey's master plan of making D20 so omnipresent and convenient that it became the default game for harried, scattered tabletop players bore fruit? Now that the D20-powered Pathfinder has quashed even D&D's brand power in pushing innovation wouldn't it just be more convenient to unite the tabletop hobby around its final and eternally free ruleset... dare I say, its "chess"?

Quote from: Vegetable Protein;651129But then I read a lot of stories out there in internet land that go like this: "I always wanted to try [game X], but no one wanted to give it a shot," or "No one around here wants to play anything but D&D."

One thing to keep in mind is that some of these complaints are coming from players who are unwilling to run something. So they're having difficulty convincing someone else to run the game they want to play.

The other thing to keep in mind is that most RPG systems represent a heavy investment of time by everyone involved. And that investment is only increased when the default mode of play is a lengthy campaign. (And for most people that is the default mode.)

I've found a much higher rate of success in pitching one-shots with pregenerated characters as a way of introducing new games. (Or you can skip the pregens in a system like OD&D where you can generate a character in 15 minutes or less.) It's a low commitment, so people jump onboard.

Once they play it and like it, demand for a larger campaign may (or may not) arise.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;651857One thing to keep in mind is that some of these complaints are coming from players who are unwilling to run something. So they're having difficulty convincing someone else to run the game they want to play.

The other thing to keep in mind is that most RPG systems represent a heavy investment of time by everyone involved. And that investment is only increased when the default mode of play is a lengthy campaign. (And for most people that is the default mode.)

I've found a much higher rate of success in pitching one-shots with pregenerated characters as a way of introducing new games. (Or you can skip the pregens in a system like OD&D where you can generate a character in 15 minutes or less.) It's a low commitment, so people jump onboard.

Once they play it and like it, demand for a larger campaign may (or may not) arise.

I completely agree. I always do this and have had very little problems getting people to try new stuff.

Also, answering to Spinachcat's post: here in Spain Red Box arrived in 1985, but it was not such a hit. Before it some people played RPGs, mostly AD&D, Trav and RQ, in English. In 1988 a new publisher (Joc Internacional) translated CoC, RQ 3 and MERP, and Orbital Designs translated Classic Traveller (1989), and that's where RPGs really took off. So, D&D has always been popular but not dominant, and here in Spain the groups who will only play one thing are really really rare.

Maybe it's not as hard as I think it is.  I just tossed out the OD&D game we were running here after school, mainly due to the lack of time we have to play (about 75 minutes).  We're running the Supers! rpg starting tomorrow.  No one had a problem switching.  At all. (Now to plot and scheme...hehehehe...)