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Is it really that hard to get groups to experiment?

Started by Vegetable Protein, May 01, 2013, 05:19:57 PM

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Arkansan

#30
May 02, 2013, 01:38:51 PM
I would agree that those are pretty weak reasons not to give a game a chance. Now if they try and still really can't stand it then that is one thing, but I too have come across players that literally will not sit down at the table over shit like that. In my experience that kind of thing has typically come from people who have favored ways to abuse a particular system, or those who are convinced that my only function as GM is to roll for the bad guys and read from a module. I have also had a player that refused to play anything other than a published module, and he had to know in advance what it was so he could run out, buy a copy and spoil the fun.

Benoist

#31
May 02, 2013, 01:43:10 PM
Most players I've known, casual or not, have been pretty open to house ruling and experimentation. I drop a game in front of them, pitch it a little, and more often than not I'll get some interest out of it. I've even had players request me to run other games they were interested in.

Rincewind1

#32
May 02, 2013, 01:51:48 PM
Right now, I have a problem with too experimental players ;p. Can't stick a system to them, because they want to try "something different".
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Bill

#33
May 02, 2013, 02:00:19 PM
Quote from: gleichman;651451Never had a problem with it. We've always gone with what most want to play, and if someone really doesn't want to join it they can find another group. Haven't seen the latter in decades.



You're on record as not caring about mechanics, and being willing to override them on whim when desired. Of course those are petty reasons to you.

For those however who actually care about and follow the rules, such things are very important indeed.

Hey now, don't exaggerate my preferences.

I clearly care about mechanics; I often post about desire for mechanics to be enough crunch to get the job done, fade in the background, unobtrusive; stuff like that.

I care very much about mechanics. Hell, I design rpgs.

As for whim and overriding rules, I do it when I feel the rules are inadequate, and when it makes sense. Not all the time, not without reason.

In fact, I find it counter intuitive that anyone would limit themselves to the RAW in an rpg.

Chess? sure. RAW is great.

RPG?  Makes no sense to me to go RAW without exception.

gleichman

#34
May 02, 2013, 02:27:02 PM
Quote from: Bill;651471Hey now, don't exaggerate my preferences.

I'm not, it's just that when you say things like this:

Quote from: Bill;651471RPG?  Makes no sense to me to go RAW without exception.

Then the rules don't really matter enough to care about. Thus you're saying a person is 'petty' for rejecting a game because of them is consistent, it follows from your beliefs.

Be happy, that makes you one of the more consistent people on this board. Unless of course you think that a vice and not a virtue.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Bill

#35
May 02, 2013, 02:56:34 PM
Quote from: gleichman;651477I'm not, it's just that when you say things like this:



Then the rules don't really matter enough to care about. Thus you're saying a person is 'petty' for rejecting a game because of them is consistent, it follows from your beliefs.

Be happy, that makes you one of the more consistent people on this board. Unless of course you think that a vice and not a virtue.

I did not say that at all.

A person can be petty about someting without being a globally petty person.

I can like a friend that disagrees strongly with me about politics.

Its obvious I care about rules and mechanics.

You seem to think any deviation from raw equals not caring about rules.
I disagree with that; its backwards really, in my opinion.

gleichman

#36
May 02, 2013, 03:14:40 PM
Quote from: Bill;651485Its obvious I care about rules and mechanics.

Bill: I override rules when I feel I should
Bill: People who refuse to play a game due to its mechanics are being petty.
Bill: I value mechanics

End of story.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Bill

#37
May 02, 2013, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: gleichman;651495Bill: I override rules when I feel I should
Bill: People who refuse to play a game due to its mechanics are being petty.
Bill: I value mechanics

End of story.



End of story? Hardly :)

Thats a pretty warped version of what I say.

If you wanted to be more accurate, try this:

Bill: I overide rules when it makes sense, and when rules are inadequate.

Bill: There are reasons for not playing a system I find to be petty.

Bill: I value mechanics but not in violation with common sense.

gleichman

#38
May 02, 2013, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: Bill;651498End of story? Hardly :)

Thats a pretty warped version of what I say.

It's the reality of what you say.

Yes, I know it's quite the fashion in this world to think everything is relative and to hold to no standards, beliefs, or behaviors except what feels good at the moment. Justification is easy to find, and easier yet to rename "sense". By all means have fun. Pick up the pretty gem, look it over, claim you value it, and then hurl into the trash the moment it gets in your way. The next time maybe you'll hang on to it a bit longer, or drop it sooner. It doesn't matter.

Yes, very modern. But I'm too old fashioned to wave it off as anything but what it truly is, no matter how often you wish to claim otherwise.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Rincewind1

#39
May 02, 2013, 03:42:42 PM
Quote from: gleichman;651505It's the reality of what you say.

Yes, I know it's quite the fashion in this world to think everything is relative and to hold to no standards, beliefs, or behaviors except what feels good at the moment. Justification is easy to find, and easier yet to rename "sense". By all means have fun. Pick up the pretty gem, look it over, claim you value it, and then hurl into the trash the moment it gets in your way. The next time maybe you'll hang on to it a bit longer, or drop it sooner. It doesn't matter.

Yes, very modern. But I'm too old fashioned to wave it off as anything but what it truly is, no matter how often you wish to claim otherwise.

Wow. Just wow. Are you high? Because honestly, if we were discussing something serious, like medicine or social standards, that'd still be ramblings. But we're discussing bloody games, so...

Quote from: Bill;651498End of story? Hardly :)

Thats a pretty warped version of what I say.

If you wanted to be more accurate, try this:

Bill: I overide rules when it makes sense, and when rules are inadequate.

Bill: There are reasons for not playing a system I find to be petty.

Bill: I value mechanics but not in violation with common sense.


I think that's the most common approach, and mine as well (except rather than petty, I'd say "clunky" or one that does not meet my expectations in terms of [term]). And I understood you just fine.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Bill

#40
May 02, 2013, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: gleichman;651505It's the reality of what you say.

Yes, I know it's quite the fashion in this world to think everything is relative and to hold to no standards, beliefs, or behaviors except what feels good at the moment. Justification is easy to find, and easier yet to rename "sense". By all means have fun. Pick up the pretty gem, look it over, claim you value it, and then hurl into the trash the moment it gets in your way. The next time maybe you'll hang on to it a bit longer, or drop it sooner. It doesn't matter.

Yes, very modern. But I'm too old fashioned to wave it off as anything but what it truly is, no matter how often you wish to claim otherwise.

I enjoy discussing things with you, really I do.

But this last post of yours is detached from reality.

KenHR

#41
May 02, 2013, 03:50:13 PM
Quote from: Bill;651510I enjoy discussing things with you, really I do.

But this last post of yours is detached from reality.

Absolutely.  That gem is gonna give me the XP I need to level up!
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
band - other music

gleichman

#42
May 02, 2013, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Bill;651510I enjoy discussing things with you, really I do.

But this last post of yours is detached from reality.

It was real enough, although you'll never see it from where you've taken yourself.

BTW, I was trying for a purple prose award because otherwise it would have just being a boring repeat of what's already been written. I hope I won.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Benoist

#43
May 02, 2013, 03:58:32 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;651507Wow. Just wow. Are you high?
No. It's gleichman. Come on, everyone should know his schtick by now. Could we keep on talking about the topic and not him?

Rincewind1

#44
May 02, 2013, 04:04:46 PM
Quote from: Benoist;651517No. It's gleichman. Come on, everyone should know his schtick by now. Could we keep on talking about the topic and not him?

Of course, but even by his usual drunken Irishman style, this was a full blown Reefer Madness combined with bottom of Johnny Walker Black Label with a spice of two shots of Dębowa.



I somewhat think that this lack of system experimentation is more of an American thing, where D&D always held strongest stronghold. In the rest of the Western world, you had D&D coming alongside first as a rare import, than there was local variants from people who learnt RPGs and either loved D&D but wanted their version, or disagreed with D&D, before the TSR/WoTC arrived with the product.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed
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