Why do those of us who appreciate the old ways, like that style of gaming better?

How can it be well explained, in 100 words or less?

Because everyone has an opinion.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 10, 2024, 01:28:52 AMBecause everyone has an opinion.

But your opinions are objectively wrong.  All of them.

Yes, the OSR is better to me.

I prefer rules light.  I don't need rules on how fast it takes to draw a sword, at night, in the rain, left handed.

Also, no, it's not better.  I don't like THAC-0 or descending armor class, and I do like weapon and armor traits from 5E.

My games tend to be hybrids.  They're games made out of the best ideas that have survived to today, without any bloat. There are lots of games to pick from.  None of my favorites are truly D&D anymore. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on December 10, 2024, 06:41:15 AMYes, the OSR is better to me.

I prefer rules light.  I don't need rules on how fast it takes to draw a sword, at night, in the rain, left handed.

Also, no, it's not better.  I don't like THAC-0 or descending armor class, and I do like weapon and armor traits from 5E.

My games tend to be hybrids.  They're games made out of the best ideas that have survived to today, without any bloat. There are lots of games to pick from.  None of my favorites are truly D&D anymore. 

I'll second that. Lighter base engines allow me to select the chrome [additional rules or features] that I want to add. That's why I don't get excited about the continual/latest WotC fiasco/scandal. My table rules are customized for the type of setting and campaign that as a GM I want to run.

The real question is better for whom? I have enjoyed the classic OSR style game since 1980. Even so, in my younger days I was always trying new systems, and looking for the perfect amount of crunch that would handle everything. Now that I am older, I appreciate the rules light approach even more than ever. So personally, the OSR style game is better for me. Others have their own journey to discover what works best for them.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on December 10, 2024, 07:38:13 AMThe real question is better for whom? I have enjoyed the classic OSR style game since 1980. Even so, in my younger days I was always trying new systems, and looking for the perfect amount of crunch that would handle everything. Now that I am older, I appreciate the rules light approach even more than ever. So personally, the OSR style game is better for me. Others have their own journey to discover what works best for them.

My answer is similar. My stopping point for "official" D&D is 3.x, nothing afterwards interests me. Even then, I mostly use 3.x for inspiration towards OSR and solo play.

Of course, that's only for D&D type games. Traveller still rocks my worlds in all its myriad ways, as does Mekton and Cyberpunk. The only Star Wars that does it for me is d6 Star Wars, I can't stand other versions.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 10, 2024, 06:33:01 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 10, 2024, 01:28:52 AMBecause everyone has an opinion.

But your opinions are objectively wrong.  All of them.

Quote from: Man at Arms on December 10, 2024, 01:11:34 AMWhy do those of us who appreciate the old ways, like that style of gaming better?

How can it be well explained, in 100 words or less?

Better than what? This question seems to imply that there are only two ways to play - the OSR and (presumably) current-edition D&D.

But there were tons of different ways to play when I was a kid in the 1980s -- including different rule sets like Champions, Call of Cthulhu, Ghostbusters, Ars Magica, etc. that ranged from rules-lite to rules-heavy with lots of variations -- and also different styles of playing each game.

There are also hundreds of non-D&D, non-OSR games being published today, including a huge range.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on December 10, 2024, 07:38:13 AMThe real question is better for whom?

Also, better than what? Given the choice, I'm probably going to play an OSR game before I play contemporary D&D/Pathfinder, but there's other games I'd play before I picked an OSR game.

At any rate, it's not nostalgia for me for the very simple reason that I wasn't playing D&D back in the TSR days. That actually seems to be pretty common in the OSR outside of this specific forum, so clearly it's offering something other than nostalgia. That said, I do find there is a lot of mythmaking about the how the game used to be played, by both old hands and new converts.

EDIT: JHKim posted his response while I was typing mine.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 10, 2024, 07:45:36 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on December 10, 2024, 07:38:13 AMThe real question is better for whom? I have enjoyed the classic OSR style game since 1980. Even so, in my younger days I was always trying new systems, and looking for the perfect amount of crunch that would handle everything. Now that I am older, I appreciate the rules light approach even more than ever. So personally, the OSR style game is better for me. Others have their own journey to discover what works best for them.

My answer is similar. My stopping point for "official" D&D is 3.x, nothing afterwards interests me. Even then, I mostly use 3.x for inspiration towards OSR and solo play.

Of course, that's only for D&D type games. Traveller still rocks my worlds in all its myriad ways, as does Mekton and Cyberpunk. The only Star Wars that does it for me is d6 Star Wars, I can't stand other versions.

I don't know where you are, but if you're in the NE Ohio area, you're welcome to my gaming table any time.

I do you one better: official D&D stopped for me at AD&D 2e. I was originally excited about 3.0 when it hit the stores...then I saw the 20+ page conversion book, and I was like "WTF? REALLY?"

3e was designed to not be backward compatible and force you to buy all new product. From where I was, people were unloading their older stuff so they could buy the new shiny. I couldn't bear the thought of parting with my older editions, let alone buying all new stuff just so I can play with the cool kids.

I was lucky that Hackmaster 4E came out not too long afterwards. The simple fact that even if I buy just the core rule books, EVERYTHING from 1st and 2nd ed AD&D is 100% compatible with HM 4E. You don't even need to buy the Hacklopedias if you didn't. Just add the 20 hp kicker to the monster after rolling hp and you're done.

But yeah, I dig most of the OSR stuff. I'm sure nostalgia plays a part, but there is a practical side for me. Just recently I stopped playing HM 4E. I do love the game, but for what I want to do, combat bogs down to a grind. Way too crunchy in that regard. PLus, it tends to play into the power gamer side of things. I wanted something at least comparably that was rules light.  So I shopped around and I liked what I saw in Labyrinth Lord. It was like the best of Basic D&D and AD&D. So far, I'm really liking it.

Star War d6: my best bud had a long running campaign using the REUP d6 rules. They're a fan driven project where they revised, expanded, and updated the old West End d6 system. Hence REUP. Campaign was literality just before Order 66 dropped. Crazy fun campaign. 

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 10, 2024, 08:30:53 AMThat said, I do find there is a lot of mythmaking about the how the game used to be played, by both old hands and new converts.

As someone who's been playing since 1981, I'd like to hear what "myths" have developed in your opinion.

Quote from: blackstone on December 10, 2024, 08:35:26 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 10, 2024, 07:45:36 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on December 10, 2024, 07:38:13 AMThe real question is better for whom? I have enjoyed the classic OSR style game since 1980. Even so, in my younger days I was always trying new systems, and looking for the perfect amount of crunch that would handle everything. Now that I am older, I appreciate the rules light approach even more than ever. So personally, the OSR style game is better for me. Others have their own journey to discover what works best for them.

My answer is similar. My stopping point for "official" D&D is 3.x, nothing afterwards interests me. Even then, I mostly use 3.x for inspiration towards OSR and solo play.

Of course, that's only for D&D type games. Traveller still rocks my worlds in all its myriad ways, as does Mekton and Cyberpunk. The only Star Wars that does it for me is d6 Star Wars, I can't stand other versions.

I don't know where you are, but if you're in the NE Ohio area, you're welcome to my gaming table any time.

I do you one better: official D&D stopped for me at AD&D 2e. I was originally excited about 3.0 when it hit the stores...then I saw the 20+ page conversion book, and I was like "WTF? REALLY?"

3e was designed to not be backward compatible and force you to buy all new product. From where I was, people were unloading their older stuff so they could buy the new shiny. I couldn't bear the thought of parting with my older editions, let alone buying all new stuff just so I can play with the cool kids.

I was lucky that Hackmaster 4E came out not too long afterwards. The simple fact that even if I buy just the core rule books, EVERYTHING from 1st and 2nd ed AD&D is 100% compatible with HM 4E. You don't even need to buy the Hacklopedias if you didn't. Just add the 20 hp kicker to the monster after rolling hp and you're done.

But yeah, I dig most of the OSR stuff. I'm sure nostalgia plays a part, but there is a practical side for me. Just recently I stopped playing HM 4E. I do love the game, but for what I want to do, combat bogs down to a grind. Way too crunchy in that regard. PLus, it tends to play into the power gamer side of things. I wanted something at least comparably that was rules light.  So I shopped around and I liked what I saw in Labyrinth Lord. It was like the best of Basic D&D and AD&D. So far, I'm really liking it.

Star War d6: my best bud had a long running campaign using the REUP d6 rules. They're a fan driven project where they revised, expanded, and updated the old West End d6 system. Hence REUP. Campaign was literality just before Order 66 dropped. Crazy fun campaign. 

If I'm ever in NE Ohio, I'll be in touch. Be good to wander the world and play games.

The thing I like about 3.x the most is the OGL revolution. Nobody had done an OGL before and it helped to allow for an imagination explosion when it came to RPGs. Yeah, there was some shit, but the good stuff was absolute gold.

I think the sandbox/living world playstyle makes for a better game than scripted linked encounters. The latter was popular in 2e AD&D of course. 4e D&D is the best ruleset if you want that style. I think 2014 D&D has a lot going for it mechanically and supports an OSR play style, I'm not sure if I'd call it better than pre-3e but it has advantages and disadvantages.

For me, yes it's better.  I don't have time for over complicated systems like Champions of 2d20 anymore.  My gaming time is limited and I want to spend more time playing and less time having to stop so the GM has to check the book to figure out a complicated rule.

YMMV.