Hi,
While I love running in person games occasionally I want to run a game online because it's easier to find people for systems that are not D&D.
While Fantasy Grounds has good support for other systems, it seems like Foundry has better support for systems other than D&D.
I see that you can go to their site and download a lot of different rulesets.
How is it for installing rules and setting up games?
I like the idea that it is one price and players pay nothing
I don't know Fantasy grounds but Foundry is gangbusters for me. Downloadable community mods do amazingly.
And if your looking for just quick and minimal character sheets foundry has universal customizable versions fir those too.
Foundry VTT is extraordinarily powerful, and despite its flaws I'd recommend it just because it's something you can download, save forever, and run any time. There's no subscription fee or cost beyond the initial purchase, and the addons are extensive and generally powerful. And players play free.
That said...
I run almost exclusively homebrew games through text chat, and those are both weaknesses of Foundry. It has remarkably poor tools for differentiating between actors and most of the chat plugins conflict with each other in various screwy ways, i.e. overriding each other's CSS, not displaying portraits well, having very poor support for controlling character speak-as messages. I spent an entire month in 2022 learning JavaScript to program my own module just to run a system of mine because I was dissatisfied with the handful of sandbox build-your-own-system/sheet modules that exist. And while Foundry at its prime is by far and away the most powerful and fluid VTT you can get, it takes a
lot of setup to get to that point. I'd describe it as "setup & payoff: the VTT".
To give a comparison, I run one-shots occasionally to fill in for my friends' games or to stopgap a slipup in my own prep for my campaigns, or just for fun. I always use a free Roll20 account to run them. This is because the setup time for a game in Roll20 using a blank generic sheet looks like this:
- Open Roll20 & sign in
- Create a new game, mark it as having a generic sheet on the same page, and click start
- Import into Roll20 whatever I need to run the module (images of maps, make character sheets, unique tokens where necessary)
- Invite the players and start playing
Whereas for Foundry VTT, it looks like this:
- Open Foundry and sign into the admin account
- Create a new world, set up a basic name and maybe a description, choose the system module, and log in
- Manually set up a number of seats equal to the number of players that I think will be joining, including their names & passwords if they want one
- Also configure those seats' permission levels, and the permissions assigned to each level so that they can actually upload data like images to the server
- Close that, open the addons menu, and manually sort through the gigantic unsorted alphabetical list of modules for the ones I actually want/need to use, and struggle to remember which ones currently function and which ones break
- Open the addons configuration menu and configure each addon separately, trying to remember what all of the "default" best settings for each module is for the game system I'm using, which settings break when combined with other modules (specifically, chat modules that add /desc commands, portraits, player color borders, and other necessary tools)
- Configure the regular settings too, because several of the defaults are ass (i.e. moving the window to a speaking token when a chat message is sent attached to their token)
- Double-check to make sure nothing was forgotten because I probably forgot something
- Start importing game materials like maps - but not just any maps, because if you're not using Simple Fog, Foundry can only handle fog of war through its wall system, which requires even more extremely painful manual setup tracing over every wall on a map manually, so you'd better make sure you have a tool like Dungeondraft that can export wall data automatically, but that also means you have to recreate module maps and the like by hand, and oh god what a pain this isn't worth it at all maybe I can convince them to just make do with a verbal description and draw a node map for them on a blank canvas this time
- Fail to convince them to make do with a verbal description & node map on the canvas, and import maps anyways
- Also interspersed in the game materials step is struggling with the custom file browser Foundry uses, which is lacking features by anyone's definition and at least for the GM should really just be placed with a hook for the operating system's default file browser; file drag-and-drop platforms are a stop-gap solution that will quickly screw up your data structure by dumping everything you upload into a single folder.
- Oh yeah, data structure matters too, because everything is stored locally in your Data folder. If you let players upload files, they can also see what you're uploading, so you have to go configure a new folder to hold this specific campaign's files in, and then mark it as player-inaccessible which took me a while to figure out on the UI since label-less buttons are all the rage these days
- You might be able to start playing now, but I probably forgot a few extra steps. If you're running a system that Foundry doesn't have a module for, you're SOL. Go program your own or spend a few hours/days making sheets in the Custom System Builder or Sandbox system modules.
This is not
particularly exaggerated. I don't like Roll20's business practices, but if it can do anything well, it's lightning-fast onboarding. Foundry gives you total control over everything and then does nothing for you. Do
everything manually. The defaults probably suck, and you can't change them - you have to redo everything every time you start a new game. Once it works? it
works. But make sure you know what you're getting into.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 05:00:53 PM
While Fantasy Grounds has good support for other systems, it seems like Foundry has better support for systems other than D&D.
It really depends on what you want as a GM. Fantasy Grounds excels at game mechanic automation. The only ruleset on Foundry that comes close to matching Fantasy Grounds' level of automation is the one for Pathfinder 2nd Edition.
Foundry VTT is generally drop dead gorgeous eye candy and supports the latest graphics formats and generally acts like a modern webapp. Fantasy Grounds UI is a bit obtuse and very much stuck in the 90s.
I generally use Fantasy Grounds myself, but have started branching to use Foundry for those game systems that don't have a good implementation in FG but are supported in Foundry.
I've used both and... it's complicated. Fantasy Grounds requires players download a client to connect to the GM and has a pretty janky interface with lots of right-clicky menus, but it also has years of supported systems and far more commercial addons where you can just buy the various rulebooks and auto-add them to a game, which only the GM needs to purchase. Foundry is better-looking and generally better-UIed, but much newer and so is weaker on officially supported content. It's also very Chrome-based; other browsers have a tendency to flake out with it, and if you do a bunch of lighting/animation stuff it can be hard on older computers.
Both of them are good VTTs and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, especially because both have one-time-purchase options that don't milk you for eternity like Roll20 and a bunch of others. But as for which is right for you, I think it boils down more to the specific system you're trying to use them for. Check their forums/discord/etc for what system you're playing and see for yourself if they have a current ruleset available for it that's still being supported.
In for answers...my group uses roll20, or did until a month ago when the video just stopped working, inexplicably. I was thinking of getting a license for Fantasy Grounds, but Foundry also looks interesting. We just use the video chat, die rolling, and maps, no need for any of the actual "game" part since we have paper character sheets and rulebooks. Sounds like Foundry might be a better option for this?
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 03, 2023, 06:01:14 PM
I don't know Fantasy grounds but Foundry is gangbusters for me. Downloadable community mods do amazingly.
And if your looking for just quick and minimal character sheets foundry has universal customizable versions fir those too.
That's the thing for me. I found a great number of modules for Foundry to play a ton of different games. Unless it's D&D, pathfinder or Savage Worlds (which I love) there is not enough support for other systems or interest in doing mods for other systems.
Quote from: SirKerry on April 03, 2023, 08:30:47 PM
It really depends on what you want as a GM. Fantasy Grounds excels at game mechanic automation. The only ruleset on Foundry that comes close to matching Fantasy Grounds' level of automation is the one for Pathfinder 2nd Edition.
So the Foundry automations are not as good as Fantasy Grounds? Disappointing.
Quote from: Brad on April 04, 2023, 07:53:38 AM
In for answers...my group uses roll20, or did until a month ago when the video just stopped working, inexplicably. I was thinking of getting a license for Fantasy Grounds, but Foundry also looks interesting. We just use the video chat, die rolling, and maps, no need for any of the actual "game" part since we have paper character sheets and rulebooks. Sounds like Foundry might be a better option for this?
Tried Roll20 and I hated it. It's really not intuitive on how to set things up and I find with Fantasy Ground I can set up a game much faster. Of course FG is pay and Roll20 is not, so you get what you pay for.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 09:39:09 AMSo the Foundry automations are not as good as Fantasy Grounds? Disappointing.
They're not 0 "Roll20" tier bad though. Like for SWADE there is automation to apply damage, shakes, and rerolls with a few clicks.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 09:41:44 AM
They're not 0 "Roll20" tier bad though. Like for SWADE there is automation to apply damage, shakes, and rerolls with a few clicks.
Oh ok. I guess the way I read it (I could be wrong) they were saying they weren't that good. Interesting to know.
I haven't ruled it out and I know there are a lot of people using it.
I am not sure about Foundry but Fantasy Grounds does have a steep learning curve
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 09:46:08 AMI am not sure about Foundry but Fantasy Grounds does have a steep learning curve
I would say its steep-ish but pretty fast once you figure it out. That's me anyway. There is a chunk that has to be learned upfront but after that, you can take it at your own pace. I don't know about Fantasy Grounds but the amount of fantastic modules (free community made) for Foundry makes it work for me.
Things like teleporters for doors/stairs (automatic or manual), more advanced macros, ping, and lots of system-specific stuff.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 09:55:23 AM
I would say its steep-ish but pretty fast once you figure it out. That's me anyway. There is a chunk that has to be learned upfront but after that, you can take it at your own pace. I don't know about Fantasy Grounds but the amount of fantastic modules (free community made) for Foundry makes it work for me.
Things like teleporters for doors/stairs (automatic or manual), more advanced macros, ping, and lots of system-specific stuff.
Yes I looked through the library of material for Foundry and I was amazed as all the stuff that is available.
I know one person said they need to do some programing to make home brews work. Do you find that true?
I am not a programmer so that would be an issue for me.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 09:46:08 AM
Oh ok. I guess the way I read it (I could be wrong) they were saying they weren't that good. Interesting to know.
I haven't ruled it out and I know there are a lot of people using it.
I am not sure about Foundry but Fantasy Grounds does have a steep learning curve
Foundry does have a learning curve. I can't say how it compares to FG though, because I only ever used FG years ago as a player. That said, if you get a company providing official Foundry modules for purchase, they generally look amazing and have a very high level of automation. I jumped whole hog into Foundry because Free League started including official Foundry modules in their kickstarters and they are my favorite RPG company. The Third Floor Wars YouTube channel has a good video on Forbidden Lands in Foundry, which will give you an idea how it looks with an official module, and explains how it works. And if I'm not mistaken, FL pretty much just got people who were already making very nice mods for their games in Foundry to do it officially. I'm currently waiting for two Forbidden Lands mods from the last kickstarter for that game, one for Dragonbane, and the Urban Ops one for Twilight: 2000.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 10:00:38 AMI know one person said they need to do some programing to make home brews work. Do you find that true?
I am not a programmer so that would be an issue for me.
Depends on what your brewing. Automation features of your own? Probably. Just adding some species of choice or whatever? No.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 01:40:36 PM
Depends on what your brewing. Automation features of your own? Probably. Just adding some species of choice or whatever? No.
Ok, that is a relief.
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 04, 2023, 10:13:45 AM
Foundry does have a learning curve. I can't say how it compares to FG though, because I only ever used FG years ago as a player. That said, if you get a company providing official Foundry modules for purchase, they generally look amazing and have a very high level of automation. I jumped whole hog into Foundry because Free League started including official Foundry modules in their kickstarters and they are my favorite RPG company. The Third Floor Wars YouTube channel has a good video on Forbidden Lands in Foundry, which will give you an idea how it looks with an official module, and explains how it works. And if I'm not mistaken, FL pretty much just got people who were already making very nice mods for their games in Foundry to do it officially. I'm currently waiting for two Forbidden Lands mods from the last kickstarter for that game, one for Dragonbane, and the Urban Ops one for Twilight: 2000.
I dealt with the learning curve of Fantasy Grounds and it was a bit of a curve so I am sure I could handle Foundry just fine. Thanks for the information.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 01:44:17 PMOk, that is a relief.
Maybe he meant a 100% homebrew system, but even then there are some solid customizable "universal sheet - make your own" if you want just the basics of a place to store your stats and maybe roll on a button. I'm currently in a Foundry campaign with a 100% original system.
Yeah, if you're just doing Roll20 level of stick a map on a screen, move minis around, and roll a die, Foundry does it right out of the box no problem. It's only if you're trying to automate rules that you have to Javascript yourself a system.
Speaking of Roll20: Don't give Roll20 money. Not only do they hit you up with a subscription fee in perpetuity in addition to squeezing for digital content, their owner is a cock who's been caught out arbitrarily banning people and told a prospective streaming group looking for sponsorship that he didn't need more white guys representing his product.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 01:49:49 PM
Maybe he meant a 100% homebrew system, but even then there are some solid customizable "universal sheet - make your own" if you want just the basics of a place to store your stats and maybe roll on a button. I'm currently in a Foundry campaign with a 100% original system.
I wasn't planning on doing that but he made it sound like if I wanted to ever go that route that there would be coding that had to be done.
Quote from: Valatar on April 04, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Speaking of Roll20: Don't give Roll20 money. Not only do they hit you up with a subscription fee in perpetuity in addition to squeezing for digital content, their owner is a cock who's been caught out arbitrarily banning people and told a prospective streaming group looking for sponsorship that he didn't need more white guys representing his product.
It's sad though.
I thought Roll20 was now owned by DriveThruRPG. Is that not the case?
Quote from: Valatar on April 04, 2023, 03:13:08 PM
Speaking of Roll20: Don't give Roll20 money. Not only do they hit you up with a subscription fee in perpetuity in addition to squeezing for digital content, their owner is a cock who's been caught out arbitrarily banning people and told a prospective streaming group looking for sponsorship that he didn't need more white guys representing his product.
I hadn't heard he was apparently Kyle Brinks' "White Guys Haters Club" chapter head. It's been years since I used Roll20, and that pretty much guarantees I'll never use it again. Gob forbid white guys, the group that invented TTRPGs and kept them alive for a decades, be a face of your product. Apparently it's impossible for a company to sponsor multiple groups of people. Getting pissed about white guys being the majority of the TTRPG community is like getting pissed about black guys being the majority of the rap music industry.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:19:58 PMI wasn't planning on doing that but he made it sound like if I wanted to ever go that route that there would be coding that had to be done.
No, what Im saying is the coding had already been done so you can make a generic non-automated sheet of your choice.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 03:20:58 PM
It's sad though.
I thought Roll20 was now owned by DriveThruRPG. Is that not the case?
They merged last year, the original owner and dick in question for Roll20, Nolan Jones, is not the CEO any more but is still owns a large share of the company and as far as I'm aware, still has his hands in it.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 04:17:01 PM
No, what Im saying is the coding had already been done so you can make a generic non-automated sheet of your choice.
Ok So I misunderstood you. My Bad. Sorry about that.
Quote from: Valatar on April 04, 2023, 04:39:36 PM
They merged last year, the original owner and dick in question for Roll20, Nolan Jones, is not the CEO any more but is still owns a large share of the company and as far as I'm aware, still has his hands in it.
Is there an possibility of him being removed for ROll20 or will he be attached to it like an annoying skin tag?