Quote from: Koltar;474668You're right Blackhand had no point in what he posted.

 I'm knocking a setting he likes that is filled with dark and hateful images, so he decides to knock a setting I like that is filled with hope and optimistic images.


- Ed C.

Star Trek is hopeful and optomistic?

Sure, if you buy the communist utopia that began with ST:TNG where you have an empathic ship's counselor who ensures that everyone on board is thinking "healthy" thoughts and remains at their assigned station in life while the good ship goes to defeat the forces of capitalism (Ferengi). Of course, Klingons (who were representative of random violence) are OK now since they have been spayed and neutered by their contact with the Federation.

Yup, that is truly hopeful and optomistic to anyone who hates Free Will.

Funny also how the Cardassians were first called the Cardassian Union then suddenly became the Cardassian Empire.

Quote from: jeff37923;474777Yup, that is truly hopeful and optomistic to anyone who hates Free Will.

or testicles.

Quote from: jeff37923;474777Sure, if you buy the communist utopia that began with ST:TNG where you have an empathic ship's counselor who ensures that everyone on board is thinking "healthy" thoughts and remains at their assigned station in life while the good ship goes to defeat the forces of capitalism (Ferengi). Of course, Klingons (who were representative of random violence) are OK now since they have been spayed and neutered by their contact with the Federation.

Yup, that is truly hopeful and optomistic to anyone who hates Free Will.

This has got to be one of the great parodies of our time.

I honestly don't give two shits about who is supposed to be Nazis, or 1950s era Soviets, or which group is a thinly veiled version of the Guelphs and which are blatantly Ghibellines.  If I want despair and/or torture porn, I can pick up a newspaper.  I don't need to play depressing games or watch sad movies to be reminded that 'the world is a fucked up place', or that 'most people are flawed'.  No fucking shit, Sherlocks.

It too much reeks of 'edgier than thou' or 'internet tough guy'.  Plato was right; don't fill kids' heads with constant misery stories where the hero is betrayed and loses while the villain suffers no consequences.  This perverse social Darwinism crap (that goes against human nature) is bullshit invented by those with power to keep everyone under them distracted by scrabbling and clawing at each other for that extra shiny pebble.

The Daleks are far nastier than any agent of the Imperium. Yet they routinely feature in the machinations of a small minded gangly immortal accompanied by a cartoon soundtrack who won't let humanity defend itself.

Except Dark Heresy is really no more full of despair and torture porn than, say, Call of Cthulhu: Delta Green or Shadowrun or any other paranormal-investigation game.

This is basically what happens:

Your boss, the Inquisitor, has received some intelligence that Bad Shit is About to Happen in a Certain Place. He sends you to investigate.

You go there, and discover that some Really Bad People are planning to do something Really, Really Bad that will endanger the lives and souls of countless millions. You find out where the Really Bad People are hiding, collect some insanity or corruption points from witnessing the depths of the depravity of the Really Bad People, and then shoot all the Really Bad People and set fire to their remains.

You take a few months off for R&R, and then repeat the process.

You don't go about imprisoning peaceful protesters practicing civil disobedience because they want their local planetary governor to reduce graft by 12%, you go about shooting cultists who have pledged their bodies and souls to the forces of Ultimate Corruption and are planning on dragging the entire planet into the Hell Dimension.

Delta Green blows 40k/DH out the water for dark. Lovecraft's entire worldview makes Games Workshop's ideas look like fucking playschool!

And he was a racist to boot.

Quote from: Ian Warner;474774There are class acts on RPGnet who complain through Eisenhorn he made Inquisitors too sympathetic and human.

Well frankly most of them should be. They're not Genetically Engineered and Pscyho Conditioned. They are all abused children becoming abusers but that's very sympathetic.

They're probably the same snobby-ass douche-canoes who feel that all psykers are 100% evil and should never be viable as anything more than psychic slave-dogs.

Anyhoo, Inquisitors ARE human and should strive to be the best among them. Now, as to how...

The thing with psykers is that every time they do ANYTHING, they have a 1/400 chance of being instantly consumed by daemons who will then proceed to slaughter the rest of the party and everyone else around.

This makes them understandably unpopular.

Quote from: Axiomatic;474805Except Dark Heresy is really no more full of despair and torture porn than, say, Call of Cthulhu: Delta Green or Shadowrun or any other paranormal-investigation game.

Mea Culpa, I wasn't specifically referring to Dark Heresy up there.  I am fully willing to believe you or J Arcane regarding the game.  It's the recurring "I iz tuff guy, cuz I looks into abyss! LOL!" miasma that swirls around such endeavours that gets to me.  Once in a while, the dark story serves as a bridge (vis. Empire Strikes Back) or contrast for the 'heroes' (cyberpunk genre).

But the constant "the world is a shitty place, and all my games are a reflection of that" really isn't much more than misery tourism.

Well, Dark Heresy is explicitly not set in the real world nor does it follow the laws of the real world, because in the real world, you don't summon armies of flesh rending daemons by masturbating too hard.

In general, taking Wh40k too seriously is a bad idea, because in Wh40k, merely experiencing the emotion of hope fuels the forces of Insanely Scheming Bird Satan.

Of course, NOT experiencing the emotion of hope fuels the forces of Morbidly Obese Plague Satan.

And being angry about it fuels the forces of Angry Chainsaw Satan.

Etc.

I'm just saying that to take WH40k seriously as how the real world works is...absurd, because WH40k is absurd.

Quote from: Axiomatic;474848Well, Dark Heresy is explicitly not set in the real world nor does it follow the laws of the real world, because in the real world, you don't summon armies of flesh rending daemons by masturbating too hard.

In general, taking Wh40k too seriously is a bad idea, because in Wh40k, merely experiencing the emotion of hope fuels the forces of Insanely Scheming Bird Satan.

Of course, NOT experiencing the emotion of hope fuels the forces of Morbidly Obese Plague Satan.

Which actually means that I & the OP were right all along and the Dark Heresy/WH 40K universe IS a form of Misery Tourism setting.



- Ed C.




Which STILL has nothing to do with the STAR TREK universe and no connection to it.  - anyone bringing the ST universe into the discussion is hugging a distorted straw man example.

You don't actually know what misery tourism is then.

Quote from: Koltar;474860Which actually means that I & the OP were right all along and the Dark Heresy/WH 40K universe IS a form of Misery Tourism setting.

So you respond to this post, decide that it alone backs up your opinion of DH and the 40k universe despite the fact that you have never read or played any aspect of it while completely ignoring every other point made.

Why don' you go read the book i mentioned, Brothers of the Snake, and see for yourself that the 40k universe isn't 'misery tourism' or that such stories are the only ones that can be told.