Quote from: Koltar;474287There are no Good Guy factions or groups at all in that universe.

If I ever contemplated running anything in that universe I'd have to create a new group/faction for my players just so I wouldn't have to take a mental/spiritual shower after and during every game session.

- Ed C.

Lies and Hilarity.

I'd say I'd like you to play in my game man...but I've never run a PbP before you you live FAR away from me.

Quote from: CRKrueger;474363Dark Heresy is definitely an Abnettian Inquisition and not a Watsonian one.

But there's room for both flavors!  And more.

Quote from: Blackhand;474381But there's room for both flavors!  And more.

Agreed.

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;474086I will admit to having a certain morbid fascination with the universe of the 41st Millenium. But isn't playing an agent of the Inquisition the sci-fi equivalent of playing a jew hunter for the gestapo? Is it wrong bad fun?

Disclaimer: I know only the rudimentary basics about the 40K universe. Never read a novel or Codex or even a whole game (just player-relevant bits of RT and a few DH freebies).

You know, I'm vaguely turned off by the oblique references to Nazi Germany and the Holy Inquisition (aesthetic and otherwise). I'm the kind of guy who uses the Coalition from Rifts mostly as a villain (a complex, thought-provoking villain -- what would you do if your country was torn apart by supernatural forces and flooded with alien monsters? --, but a villain nonetheless).

But I see no reason you can't spin it as Call of Cthulhu in space. CoC and other investigative horror games often involve difficult moral choices (Delta Green springs to mind) and there's no reason DH should be any different, without necessarily getting into moral slippery-slopes.

Even the DH books say that the reason everyone sees Inquisitors as homicidal fanatics is because those are the ones that draw the most attention to themselves. For every witch-hunter who bombs planets to death there are at least five others who would rather try to get the job done as discreetly as possible WITHOUT having to murder several billion people just because there happened to be a single heretical cult on the same planet.

Whenever I GM Dark Heresy (as a matter of fact we just finished one little scenario last monday that took about five sessions) I try to portray the Inquisitors as people who are willing to fight for the Imperium and genuinely want to protect it, but sometimes the odds are so heavily stacked against them that they need to do some really nasty shit to get the job done. Inevitably some are going to get corrupted or jaded or just fucking insane.

Quote from: The Butcher;474422Disclaimer: I know only the rudimentary basics about the 40K universe. Never read a novel or Codex or even a whole game (just player-relevant bits of RT and a few DH freebies).

You know, I'm vaguely turned off by the oblique references to Nazi Germany and the Holy Inquisition (aesthetic and otherwise). I'm the kind of guy who uses the Coalition from Rifts mostly as a villain (a complex, thought-provoking villain -- what would you do if your country was torn apart by supernatural forces and flooded with alien monsters? --, but a villain nonetheless).

But I see no reason you can't spin it as Call of Cthulhu in space. CoC and other investigative horror games often involve difficult moral choices (Delta Green springs to mind) and there's no reason DH should be any different, without necessarily getting into moral slippery-slopes.

I'm beginning to find the nazi references tedious, I must say.

Quote from: Koltar;474287The point you're missing is that those stories because they break the norm.
The News in most cities is defnied with "If it Bleeds, it Leads" ...NOT All the Good stuff going around here all the time that WE at station or Newspaper think you will find boring.

At least 50% to 85% of police, Firefighters are on average GOOD people doing their best to do the right thing.

Getting back to DRAK HERESY/ WH40K - its a mostly evil universe with corrupt and vile people in it. There are no Good Guy factions or groups at all in that universe. If I ever contemplated running anything in that universe I'd have to create a new group/faction for my players just so I wouldn't have to take a mental/spiritual shower after and during every game session.

- Ed C.

Well...
Inquisitors and their Acolytes are not police and firefighters. They're more like Black-Bag Special Forces, or SEAL Team Six. Or a team of "The Operative" from Serenity. Do these people think they're "evil"? Most probably not. And even the one's like The Operative think they're doing it so children won't know that kind of evil.

But 99.99% of humanity? Most are decent enough people just trying to make an honest living in the galaxy. But shit just wants to eat them, or corrupt them, or use them as slave breeding stock (i.e. "They'll torture us, rape us, and kill us. Not necessarily in that order...").

It shares a common theme with RIFTS in that regard: how much of your humanity are you willing to sacrifice, to protect humanity? Poison your body? Replace it with unfeeling machinery? Fry your mind? Consort with the enemy?

Where do you draw the line?
And that, makes for some great drama and character motivation.

Okay Novastar - then why the hell do the 'Inquisitors' (or other player group) have to wear outfits that look like Nazi uniform knockoffs or Soviet-era bargain bin uniforms?

Think I am also getting sick of games that think 'Nazi/Commie' clothing = 'edgy/Cool/fashionable/Trendy.

No it just looks stupid.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;474593Okay Novastar - then why the hell do the 'Inquisitors' (or other player group) have to wear outfits that look like Nazi uniform knockoffs or Soviet-era bargain bin uniforms?

Think I am also getting sick of games that think 'Nazi/Commie' clothing = 'edgy/Cool/fashionable/Trendy.

No it just looks stupid.


- Ed C.

Dude - you wear plastic foreheads and fetish leather for FUN.. And you question the cool uniform mystique?

Bear in mind, the side with the snazziest uniforms invariably loses...

Quote from: Werekoala;474596Dude - you wear plastic foreheads and fetish leather for FUN.. And you question the cool uniform mystique?

Bear in mind, the side with the snazziest uniforms invariably loses...

First,  NO I don't.

 Second - we're not talking about Star Trek or anything connected to Star Trek - the discussion was the bullshit WH 40K/Dark Heresy universe.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;474593Okay Novastar - then why the hell do the 'Inquisitors' (or other player group) have to wear outfits that look like Nazi uniform knockoffs or Soviet-era bargain bin uniforms?

Think I am also getting sick of games that think 'Nazi/Commie' clothing = 'edgy/Cool/fashionable/Trendy.

No it just looks stupid.


- Ed C.

They don't look any more like nazi uniforms than any other military dress, which is all they are. The only difference is they have more skulls. There is, i suppose, a russian front vibe to the imperial guard because of their winter grey colours and the caps that commisars (and the name commisar) wear.

Most games pick things because they think they are cool. The author wouldn't design them to look stupid.

Quote from: Melan;474215I thought that was obvious and completely uncontroversial:

The Jews = Chaos
The Soviets = Tyranids
The Urban Proletariat (without appropriate racial consciousness) = Orkz

:hatsoff:

Oh, Soviets = Tyranids, sure. (Even though and argument could be made in favour of the Yellow Scare.)

However, I feel that in some Nazi propaganda at least, the Jews are represented not so much as the all-consuming inimical power (that Chaos would be), but as pests. Consider the segment starting roughly around the 15 minute mark in Der Ewige Jude, rats come in around 16:20. And that's more like Orkz with their spreading by spore infection (of course, the Orkz also have the whole American Redneck thing as well).

40K Guard Uniforms are quite varied.

*Cadians have a US Marine Corp look to them
*Catachans are all aping Rambo (which is appropriate considering their backstory)
*Praetorians look like Rorkue's drift era British Army (intentional, they were introduced for an Ork scenario called Gork's drift)
*Mordains look more like Traffic Wardens than soldiers. In fact a GW manager in Brighton decided to paint his Mordains in the distinctive Black and Yellow of the Warden Uniforms of the time.
*Tallarhans are very Laurence of Arabia
*Death Corp, Chem Dogs etc have a WWI asthetic
*The Vallhallans and Voystovians are Soviet knock offs yes but they come from cold planets. According to Ciaphas Cain Vallhallans in particular seem to be constantly deployed to temperate and tropical regions meaning the kit the models are in is rarely worn.

Comissars are nakedly fascist in their uniforms yes but they are political officers.

Civilian dress is even more varied from raggedy robes to a more modern look.

Personally I think it's a shame that the Marine Helmet seems to have gravitated towards the "Vader mask" varian. I prefered the old beakys.

Quote from: Koltar;474597First,  NO I don't.

 Second - we're not talking about Star Trek or anything connected to Star Trek - the discussion was the bullshit WH 40K/Dark Heresy universe.


- Ed C.

Alright, here comes the forehead fucking.  And I had this streak going where I was pretty much nice to you all this time.

You can shut your fucking mouth now.  Nobody bashes that retarded ass Star Trek shit because it's literally too stupid to bother with.  And it sure as fuck is some pussy ass fucking bullshit, all the fucking way around.  That shit would never go down like that because humans aren't that morally fucking good.

Movies, comics, tv - all that fucking Star Blecch shit is right out, because it's just straight liberal pussy shit.  Makes my fucking eyes bleed, especially the new movie.

You know what they taught me in military history (since we've been talking about degrees)?  That modern militaries idolize the Nazi regime as the epitome of military effectiveness.  Yep that's right - the U.S. wants to be fucking Nazis.

Maybe that's why all the hate on 40k - the attitude is generally more prevalent and real than the overly idealized Star Trek stupidity.

The reason everyone wears those fucking uniforms is for the sheer power they present.  They represent a real thing in our real history and invoke certain feelings thereby.  The two biggest ones they are going for :  GRIM and DARK.

Are you that fucking stupid?

If you don't like it GTFO.

I might also add that it explicitly lets you know all that shit is in the universe right on the fucking package.  It fucking tells you straight out there is no hope and no light, and all you can do is fight the good fight.

And you bitch when you read/play it and find out its the truth?

Dude, what?

I'm trying to figure out if there's a coherent point in that, but...I just don't know.

QuoteAnd you bitch when you read/play it and find out its the truth?

The mistake you've made here is assuming that Koltar has either read, or played it, before going all fucking Church Lady on this shit.  

This is just what Koltar does.  He's an ignorant, clueless, moral majority slackwit with a deeply confused set of personal politics and a sycophantic streak that runs yellow from Mars bar forehead to simpering puppy's tail.  

I suggest that if staggering ignorance combined with naive moral indignation annoys you, you should IL him now because you'll never get more out of him than that.