I'm kind of surprised OSRIC isn't bigger. I mean, yeah, it lacks the gygaxian feel of 1e, but also it's more easily playable, less weird and chaotic, and came to the scene of the OSR pretty early. Though I guess part of it might be that 1e is partly enjoyed because you basically have to homebrew to readily make sense of it...

If you're going for that Gygaxian feel, easy playability definitely isn't your highest priority.

Yeah, that could be why it doesn't work for most folks, maybe...

In a sense the lack of accessibility is part of 1e's features, in that it forced practically everyone not to play it raw.

I'm not sure how you would even go about determining what's big in the OSR when everything is so decentralized.  How many people are playing OSRIC?  I have no idea.  I don't even know how I would go about determining that.

Mostly just meant sales and hype, myself, but that's a good point. My group is currently planning on primarily using the pseudo-SRD setup for OSRIC, which is basically free. Hard to determine actual gameplay share more generally, no question. Heck, I don't even know their exact sales more generally. Just that it seems they're not as big an operation as OSE, which is probable but I guess could be deceiving?

It's hard to say without hard sales numbers.  I doubt we will ever get those.  Privately held companies don't have to disclose this stuff and they have no real incentive to do so. 

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 11:04:19 PM
I'm kind of surprised OSRIC isn't bigger. I mean, yeah, it lacks the gygaxian feel of 1e, but also it's more easily playable, less weird and chaotic, and came to the scene of the OSR pretty early. Though I guess part of it might be that 1e is partly enjoyed because you basically have to homebrew to readily make sense of it...

Maybe because it's boring, soulless and not well-organized?  Despite what some people say, when I checked it out as a possible alternative to to my old AD&D stuff, I found it totally lacking, except for the digest-sizing, which I rather like.  It's probably just my familiarity with the originals, but I didn't find OSRIC to be an improvement at all for playing at the table.  For one, I prefer spell descriptions grouped by level.  And I really hate how they split the monsters into types.  And no monk?  Forget it.

I think most people will get the game that just "clicks" with them. 

Or free.  That helps. 

The fact that Old School Essentials has a free set of introductory rules really helps. 

But, if didn't click with me.  If I'm honest I'm still a fan of Palladium games.  They have Macross/RoboTech and Rifts. 

These days I like simpler games I can just pick up and play. 

Quote from: Persimmon on December 24, 2023, 10:41:14 AM

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 23, 2023, 11:04:19 PM
I'm kind of surprised OSRIC isn't bigger. I mean, yeah, it lacks the gygaxian feel of 1e, but also it's more easily playable, less weird and chaotic, and came to the scene of the OSR pretty early. Though I guess part of it might be that 1e is partly enjoyed because you basically have to homebrew to readily make sense of it...

Maybe because it's boring, soulless and not well-organized?  Despite what some people say, when I checked it out as a possible alternative to to my old AD&D stuff, I found it totally lacking, except for the digest-sizing, which I rather like.  It's probably just my familiarity with the originals, but I didn't find OSRIC to be an improvement at all for playing at the table.  For one, I prefer spell descriptions grouped by level.  And I really hate how they split the monsters into types.  And no monk?  Forget it.

For organization and spells by level, the following sort of does it better, I think?: https://www.leveldrain.com/srd

Can't really help with monster types or monk, tho. Do your players use 1e OA and the like for enhanced monk martial arts? I had heard and thought they were kinda meh, tbh, in 1e without such expansions...

Odds are this won't help much, but I did want to try and hype it up if I could. I like 1e too, and even prefer its feel and some of its options, but sometimes have trouble navigating it, tbh.

I basically flopped as a 1e AD&D DM, not least due to related issues alongside bad adaptation/improv/adjudication, in the sense that also my players couldn't understand the core of what to expect and how to play. With the OSRIC SRD at least there's a free and easily accessible copy of the core rules that they can understand.

That and the promise of the module Megadungeon of Arden Vul (and consequently a bit less improv on my part) got me a second chance, which we'll have to see how that goes, ultimately. I'm basically using OSRIC as the core, with some minor optional player possibilities from 1e for those interested. Doubt this would be a good thing for most folks to aim for, but my point kind of is that for easy accessibility to new players and DMs the OSRIC core SRD doesn't seem half bad.

That said, I can see where to a veteran DM for 1e with a solid group of players it would be less enticing. Possibly even seeming like less of the same. (Which it kind of is, though not always in a bad way, I guess.)

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 22, 2023, 04:30:23 AM
Is Shadowdark still a big deal?  I have no idea.  I don't see many people talking about it any more but maybe I am missing something.  It seemed very flavor of the month to me.  The OSR seems too decentralized for there to really be a Big Thing.  There's too many people all doing their own thing and going their own direction.

I think it received a lot of advance attention on the internet, but the actual delivery of product is underway now?  People are still waiting to receive their hard copies.

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 24, 2023, 12:46:44 PM
I basically flopped as a 1e AD&D DM, not least due to related issues alongside bad adaptation/improv/adjudication, in the sense that also my players couldn't understand the core of what to expect and how to play. With the OSRIC SRD at least there's a free and easily accessible copy of the core rules that they can understand.

That and the promise of the module Megadungeon of Arden Vul (and consequently a bit less improv on my part) got me a second chance, which we'll have to see how that goes, ultimately. I'm basically using OSRIC as the core, with some minor optional player possibilities from 1e for those interested. Doubt this would be a good thing for most folks to aim for, but my point kind of is that for easy accessibility to new players and DMs the OSRIC core SRD doesn't seem half bad.

That said, I can see where to a veteran DM for 1e with a solid group of players it would be less enticing. Possibly even seeming like less of the same. (Which it kind of is, though not always in a bad way, I guess.)

I do think a lot has to do with players & system experience.  I grew up playing D&D and AD&D so those rules are the ones I know best.   So having to find totally reorganized stuff in OSRIC is not appealing.

As for monks, I always liked them, perhaps because of my love of Kung fu films of the 70s-80s.  Don't really care about adding the OA stuff, but I love the unarmed damage and we just create names for styles and describe what we're doing.  We also played lots of OA when it came out and still use some of those classes, however.  Too bad nobody has seriously done a reboot of that.  Joseph Bloch's "Swords of Wuxia" is good for adding Chinese stuff, but adding the other  Asia stuff would be cool.

I'll be interested to hear how Arden Vul goes for you.  I bought it and enjoyed reading it, but I find it just too long and convoluted to actually run.  There are just so many factions and so much lore packed in there.  And spreading it out over 5 books, 3 of which you'll need at any time, doesn't help.  And for all that, he didn't include monster xp values in stat blocks, so you're doing that yourself.  Easier to run Tegel Manor or Rappan Athak for Swords & Wizardry.  But if you have a good experience running Arden Vul, post here and let us know how you did it.

I'll let folks know how it goes, for sure. To be honest, I am admittedly a bit nervous regarding my ability to handle the module well for many of the reason you have brought up. It and its connection to OSRIC got me player buy-in and another shot at running OSR, but if I blow this one it'll be a pretty big bummer. Still, I'm glad to have the chance to show folks a bit of the module and OSR, and will do my best to make it fun for folks regardless of how it ultimately goes. 

Quote from: Persimmon on December 24, 2023, 02:50:29 PM

Quote from: KindaMeh on December 24, 2023, 12:46:44 PM
I basically flopped as a 1e AD&D DM, not least due to related issues alongside bad adaptation/improv/adjudication, in the sense that also my players couldn't understand the core of what to expect and how to play. With the OSRIC SRD at least there's a free and easily accessible copy of the core rules that they can understand.

That and the promise of the module Megadungeon of Arden Vul (and consequently a bit less improv on my part) got me a second chance, which we'll have to see how that goes, ultimately. I'm basically using OSRIC as the core, with some minor optional player possibilities from 1e for those interested. Doubt this would be a good thing for most folks to aim for, but my point kind of is that for easy accessibility to new players and DMs the OSRIC core SRD doesn't seem half bad.

That said, I can see where to a veteran DM for 1e with a solid group of players it would be less enticing. Possibly even seeming like less of the same. (Which it kind of is, though not always in a bad way, I guess.)

I do think a lot has to do with players & system experience.  I grew up playing D&D and AD&D so those rules are the ones I know best.   So having to find totally reorganized stuff in OSRIC is not appealing.

As for monks, I always liked them, perhaps because of my love of Kung fu films of the 70s-80s.  Don't really care about adding the OA stuff, but I love the unarmed damage and we just create names for styles and describe what we're doing.  We also played lots of OA when it came out and still use some of those classes, however.  Too bad nobody has seriously done a reboot of that.  Joseph Bloch's "Swords of Wuxia" is good for adding Chinese stuff, but adding the other  Asia stuff would be cool.

I'll be interested to hear how Arden Vul goes for you.  I bought it and enjoyed reading it, but I find it just too long and convoluted to actually run.  There are just so many factions and so much lore packed in there.  And spreading it out over 5 books, 3 of which you'll need at any time, doesn't help.  And for all that, he didn't include monster xp values in stat blocks, so you're doing that yourself.  Easier to run Tegel Manor or Rappan Athak for Swords & Wizardry.  But if you have a good experience running Arden Vul, post here and let us know how you did it.

Rappan Athuk is massive.  A single volume, but massive.  I own the 5E compatible version; because it is the most recent edition, and supposedly contains some additional content.  Maps, I think?  I believe I snagged it during a half price Christmas sale, last year?  I did the same thing the previous year, with the 5E compatible Temple of Elemental Evil.  Gotta love, half price sales.

One of my friends has essentially called dibs on Rappan Athuk for part of his 5e setting. It's been in every single campaign our groups have played there, in theory or in reference, but has yet to actually be attempted or explored. Looking forward to it, but pretty much everybody else regularly gets scared off by its in-game rep for lethality and size. Which is kinda weird, since a lot of those same people are now signed up for Arden Vul. But it might also just be that the guy runs a very good sandbox, and folks are less interested in a prebuilt dungeon when quality content of that sort is the alternative.