Is 5e a Fad?

RPGPundit · August 05, 2018, 02:37:58 AM

Quote from: Omega;1051274and then the wrong people...

True. Though I know nobody pushed him to hire me. I'm not too sure the people he's listening to now is something he's doing by choice.

danskmacabre · August 05, 2018, 02:49:29 AM

Quote from: Haffrung;1051016Sadly, as part of the 4E backlash, WotC went back to the stodgy, user-unfriendly huge hardback format for 5E. Massive tomes. Tiny fonts. Rules buried in walls of text. State of the art instructional design circa 1979. Conservatism combined with a cynical recognition that half the buyers of these books don't even play, so usability and clarity can be neglected in favour of books that look good on a collector's shelf.

Apart from the tiny, tiny font they used for the index at the back, I don't have a problem with the 5e layout.

You can easily run a 5e campaign with just the PHB and character gen is a breeze. It's laid out in the correct order, the tables are large and easy to read.
Equipment, mechanics, spells etc are laid out in an easily readable format.

Even the optional rules aren't scattered throughout the book, they're easily accessible at the back where they should be.

The 5e system isn't without it criticisms of course IMO.
Off the top of my head ;
I don't like the Concentration rules
I don't like the Toolset skill rules

Claudius · August 05, 2018, 06:18:05 AM

Quote from: Haffrung;1051016And that strategy resulted in the best-designed and laid out books in D&D history, and among the best in RPG history. The digest format, the layout, the font size - everything about the Essentials books was made for accessibility, clarity, and ease of use at the table. The books look like they were actually designed in the 21st century.

Sadly, as part of the 4E backlash, WotC went back to the stodgy, user-unfriendly huge hardback format for 5E. Massive tomes. Tiny fonts. Rules buried in walls of text. State of the art instructional design circa 1979. Conservatism combined with a cynical recognition that half the buyers of these books don't even play, so usability and clarity can be neglected in favour of books that look good on a collector's shelf.

I really hated how heavy 5th ed books were, probably due to glossy paper. Publishers please take note, some people do use gaming books for actual gaming, and have to carry them in a backpack. They should be as light as possible.

S'mon · August 05, 2018, 05:07:35 PM

Quote from: Claudius;1051595I really hated how heavy 5th ed books were, probably due to glossy paper. Publishers please take note, some people do use gaming books for actual gaming, and have to carry them in a backpack. They should be as light as possible.

I mostly use a rolling luggage case, the kind that fits in plane overhead racks. Even then I normally keep it to two 5e hardbacks (PHB & MM) plus the minis case, dice bag, flipmats and adventure & campaign material. I print out the DMG magic items from the SRD.

I really love the smaller format RPGs such as White Star and 4e Essentials, but only Essentials' Monster Vault is really a good book IMO. The others look nicer than the 4e PHB but I don't much like most of their classes in play.

Aglondir · August 05, 2018, 09:10:01 PM

Quote from: Haffrung;1051016And that strategy resulted in the best-designed and laid out books in D&D history, and among the best in RPG history. The digest format, the layout, the font size - everything about the Essentials books was made for accessibility, clarity, and ease of use at the table. The books look like they were actually designed in the 21st century.

Agreed. Regardless of what one thinks of the rules, the 4E Essentials digest-size softcovers are some of the best designed RPG products in the history of the hobby (form factors, production values, and physicality). I often consider giving 4E (Essentials) another try.

Omega · August 05, 2018, 10:02:30 PM

Thats akin to what some, myself included, said of the d20Modern Gamma World DMG and some parts of the PHB. The DMG is full of advice on many different ways to DM and gives tables and examples to help. Now if only the rest had been so.

DeadUematsu · August 05, 2018, 10:04:30 PM

I disagree with the notion that 4E was a MMO, vidya game, and/or a boardgame. I'm willing to run games for people who think otherwise but so far none has shown up to be proven wrong.

RPGPundit · August 09, 2018, 03:14:53 AM

Well, it's unfair to MMOs, vidya or boardgames.

DeadUematsu · August 09, 2018, 03:30:44 PM

None... and counting.

Rhedyn · August 09, 2018, 03:53:27 PM

Quote from: Claudius;1051595I really hated how heavy 5th ed books were, probably due to glossy paper. Publishers please take note, some people do use gaming books for actual gaming, and have to carry them in a backpack. They should be as light as possible.

Meanwhile I hate buying books without glossy pages unless they are books that are meant to look old with lots of Black and White art.

Apparition · August 09, 2018, 04:18:14 PM

Quote from: Broken Twin;1051010Essentials was, like the rest of 4E, horribly promoted. It took way too long for me to figure out whether it was 4.5, completely compatible with Core, a 4E spinoff, or something else entirely. Which was a shame, because it really did have some interesting bits, and the Monster Vault was incredible. If Hasbro hadn't fucked up so badly in 4E's promotion and early stages, I think a 4.5 could have really done well. I'm still fighting the idea of making my own 4E heartbreaker.

Still, it definitely wasn't for everyone, and I don't begrudge anyone who honestly tried it and didn't like it. The shear amount of vitriol from people who hated it for what they perceived it to be was insane though. Of course, that was also my first time witnessing an edition war, so...

Edit: And while I'm okay with most of 5E, their changes to the gnoll lore compared to how 4E fleshed them out was downright criminal.

Isn't 13th Age essentially 4.5?

Armchair Gamer · August 10, 2018, 08:23:53 AM

Quote from: Apparition;1052333Isn't 13th Age essentially 4.5?

No, it's more a 3E/4E/storygame/gonzo 1E hybrid.

Lurtch · August 10, 2018, 08:43:39 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1051554True. Though I know nobody pushed him to hire me. I'm not too sure the people he's listening to now is something he's doing by choice.

He's telling people to learn to run a game by watching critical role and other shows like that. He's giving really bad advice.

finarvyn · August 12, 2018, 10:06:23 AM

Quote from: Aglondir;1051706Agreed. Regardless of what one thinks of the rules, the 4E Essentials digest-size softcovers are some of the best designed RPG products in the history of the hobby (form factors, production values, and physicality). I often consider giving 4E (Essentials) another try.

I agree that the "Essentials" line was well done, even if I wasn't a fan of the edition. I noticed that Pathfinder has put out several of their rulebooks in a similar sized layout (maybe with no art or limited art, I'm not sure) and I'd like to see some 5E products like that as long as font size doesn't suffer too much.

finarvyn · August 12, 2018, 10:13:31 AM

Quote from: Aglondir;1051706Agreed. Regardless of what one thinks of the rules, the 4E Essentials digest-size softcovers are some of the best designed RPG products in the history of the hobby (form factors, production values, and physicality). I often consider giving 4E (Essentials) another try.

I agree that the "Essentials" line was well done, even if I wasn't a fan of the edition. I noticed that Pathfinder has put out several of their rulebooks in a similar sized layout (maybe with no art or limited art, I'm not sure) and I'd like to see some 5E products like that as long as font size doesn't suffer too much.