I got it and if anyone is interested in anything about it, shout out. If not, cool. Either way, I really dig it so far and am happy with my purchase.
What the hell are you talking about? At first glance at the title, I thought that this thread was meant to be a parody to my always-humorously-named Last Sun campaign (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?29376-DCC-Campaign-Log/page11)updates. Which would have been really freaking weird.
For the Pundit and all of our curiosity, can you link us and give us the summary? It know it's an RPG kickstarter from Monte Cook games with a thick veil of mystery surrounding it...
https://www.montecookgames.com/store/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Black-Cube-All-Components-2017-07-11.jpg
Gives me the same feeling as when I saw the WHFRP 3rd box contents.
Oh, my bad! We had a thread about it a while back and even I chimed in on being skeptical about the game. I figured folks remembered.
It's a premium game MCG did that was in fact, shrouded in mystery. Now that I have the 12", almost 30-pound cube on a shelf and have cracked it open, I get the reason, as it were. Mystery and secrets abound and are a core theme to the game. It's shrouded in the surreal and secrets, but so far nothing is annoying or unnecessarily mysterious or obtuse. There's no metaplot or such.
As far as being like WH3E, I cannot say as I didn't get that game. I will say that the components...of which there are many...are beautiful! Did it need to be made this way? No, perhaps not. However, it's very, very cool and handy that it was. The bits and bobs are evocative and convenient. Several, if not all, of the components exist in-game, to include the Testament of Suns (the resin hand that holds the Sooth Deck, which are divinatory cards that fluctuate magic), the Sooth Deck itself, all of the spell/object cards, all the way to the Back Cube itself. It's pretty cool.
I absolutely love surreal stuff, so this game really hits a sweet spot. It's very focused on character-driven plots, which I enjoy in pretty much any game. There's a ton of strange but very cool aspects to a character, such as figuring out your living arrangements/social standings all the way to who and what is in your neighborhood. One interesting bit is that each PC has their choice of house but the other players create the people, places and strange occurrences around that PC's house. It's collaborative setting-building in a microcosm and the rest is up to the GM.
For those who dislike meta-currency, there isn't any that I've found. The closest thing I've seen is in one of the advancement currencies called Joy and Despair. You need one of each to create a Crux which lets you raise certain aspects of your character. You get Joy or Despair if something impactful happens to your PC, such as the death of a friend (Despair) or creating a Vancian spell with your name on it (Joy). The GM can do a GM shift to twist the narrative, granting either Joy or Despair. That's about as weird as the meta-currencies get, as far as I have seen.
The magical orders are cool and evocative. The Order of the Vance (the one I was initially least excited for) has quickly become one of my favorites. I just like how they handle magic with a sheet that has your character's "magical headspace". You then fit spells into them, more powerful spells taking up more space. Weavers create spells from concepts, Makers craft magical objects (one guy turned God into a gun), Goetics (neck-in-neck with Vances for my favorite) summon and bind angels, demons and other things. Finally, Apostates forsake the Orders, going their own way.
Oh, much like Cypher your character is create through a sentence, but it's got more parts. The final part is your Forte, the "special thing you do". Things like "Hosts a Legion" (demons inhabit your flesh), "Warps Space and Time" (exactly what is says), "Fuses Nightmare into Fist" (punching people with bad dreams) and so on.
A lot was said about how it doesn’t do anything new. By its individual concepts, perhaps not. Many of us do several of the things it does (collaborative setting-building, gaming away from the table, etc.). However as a whole it’s really slick to see these parts baked-in, even going so far as to having an in-game reason for players not showing up or having to leave mid-session.
The components are onvenient, evocative and as we like tactile bits, fun. This isn’t a board game hybrid, in fact the Path of Suns board is there for an evocative way to track the fluctuations in magic. It's more robust than Cypher but has the ease of GMing Cypher has, which is a HUGE draw for us. I dunno, I just really like it so far. We haven't played yet, but as it's got "Cypher DNA" I can clearly tell I will love it.
And it’s an expensive, giant cube full of cool stuff! :D
And we could have had a video unboxing...
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1054792And we could have had a video unboxing...
Nooooope! This is as much of an online presence as I want. :D
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1054825Nooooope! This is as much of an online presence as I want. :D
I'd have editted it first.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1054837I'd have editted it first.
It's not as if we can't show stuff now.
Oh...houses. Your character's house is an important thing that you can upgrade. One of the options is a room that lavuishes you with praise whenever you're in it. I love it!
My concern about this game is if its very successful than it becomes the model for other games, that in order to play an RPG you have to spend (and continue to spend subscription style) inordinate amounts of money. Hopefully the free market will continue to produce traditional games despite the success of invisible sun.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1054852My concern about this game is if its very successful than it becomes the model for other games, that in order to play an RPG you have to spend (and continue to spend subscription style) inordinate amounts of money. Hopefully the free market will continue to produce traditional games despite the success of invisible sun.
I doubt it. To much production went into this to viable for more than a few companies.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1054852My concern about this game is if its very successful than it becomes the model for other games, that in order to play an RPG you have to spend (and continue to spend subscription style) inordinate amounts of money. Hopefully the free market will continue to produce traditional games despite the success of invisible sun.
I highly doubt this will become the norm, even for MCG. Monte had a dream to create a game like this and felt it was a good time to do so. Otherwise, they're still hammering out affordable, quality products.
"Have to" spend? Is the basic game itself not playable?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1055098"Have to" spend? Is the basic game itself not playable?
It's absolutely playable with nothing but the Black Cube. There's a LOT of stuff in it, both conceptually and physically.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1055098"Have to" spend? Is the basic game itself not playable?
That reference is to the cost of the game. The Cube I think is going for MSRP of $250 (Kickstarter folks paid $197). I think the concern is not so much potential supplements, but that such a premium product, if successful, might bring more imitators and inflate the cost of gaming in general. (MCG recommended group purchases, rather than everybody having a copy). The full rules are not available in PDF either.
MCG made it abundantly clear it was an expensive, premium product that's not accessible to everyone. This won't become the norm and while I would love the books in PDF for convenience, I understand the idea behind the game. I'll probably post about it after I run it, but if chargen is any indication of what's to come, I'm going to love it!
Speaking of chargen, my wife made a really cool Vancian (the most "wizardy" of the magical
Orders) character who's a little mad and whose very presence warps reality. Her home is a house-shaped geode, with crystal windows and light fixtures. An odd cat moved in one day and skulks about, reporting on events in the house. I'm going to have fun with this!
I don't think this will turn into a flood of $250 rpg books.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1055685I don't think this will turn into a flood of $250 rpg books.
As I mentioned, Monte said this was a one-off idea. Will they create another premium product? Dunno.
Quote from: JRT;1055269The Cube I think is going for MSRP of $250 (Kickstarter folks paid $197).
I bought it from an OLGS (Miniature Market) for... around $160, with shipping.
You have to be -very- careful when backing TTRPGs on Kickstarter. Unless you like the whole "patron" aspect of it all, you're almost certain to either be paying more or taking on more risk than you have to by waiting for the product to hit retail later.
Quote from: JRT;1055269I think the concern is not so much potential supplements, but that such a premium product, if successful, might bring more imitators and inflate the cost of gaming in general.
Likely unnecessary. The fancy box, the cards, the hand, etc. etc. etc. None of it is especially expensive brick-brack, but collectively the manufacturing costs do add up. And then there's the quality control costs for the final product to consider. Something damaged or missing in that "junk drawer" of a game (and the more components you have, the more likely that is)? That's an extra cost for the company to replace. I'm taking them at their word this is more a vanity project than anything else. Even the supplements have cards and slipcases right?
What do you think his profit margin was on this gimmicky, over-produced game? Seems like his time would've been easier spent churning out some new Cypher System game ("The Strange 2: Now It's Practical to Play!").
Quote from: JRT;1055269The full rules are not available in PDF either.
I honestly suspect that'll come later. It would be relatively easy money to sell PDFs, but this route supports retailers (including MCGames) in trying to offload all those physical items.
And it was probably planned out like that all along. Expect a "due to strong customer demand, we decided to change our minds and sell you all PDFs" statement in a year or less. Plus, going this route, they can charge you -again- for the PDF versions of everything; the KS backers were never promised digital copies after all.
The game's neither gimmicky nor over-produced as it was made exactly as envisioned and part of that vision was the tactile nature of it. A lot of the bits are for convenience as well. If you feel it wasn't worth it, that's certainly an opinion you're entitled to. All of the things are worth it to me. I'm very impressed with it and the huge amount of options available to characters. And I love that the resin hand and Sooth cards are in-game items.
As far as PDFs go, nobody was promised them, yet every backer and preorder received a free PDF of The Key. To accuse MCG of going for a money grab is disingenuous until it's proven to be true. If they do release PDFs of the other three books, it's perfectly acceptable to charge for them, although I do feel backers should get them for free as it wasn't an option during the KS.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1055879The game's neither gimmicky nor over-produced as it was made exactly as envisioned and part of that vision was the tactile nature of it.
You do realize that it can still be gimmicky and overproduced even if that was by intent right?
Or do you -need- a necklace, circular (as opposed to square) cards, in setting "props and posters", bookmarks, and a resin hand to actually play the game? Not "it makes things more immersive", but "is necessary for game play".
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1055879As far as PDFs go, nobody was promised them, yet every backer and preorder received a free PDF of The Key. To accuse MCG of going for a money grab is disingenuous until it's proven to be true.
How can I accuse them of something they haven't done yet?
I can and did -speculate- they will do it (and it would be good business sense if they did), but I can't accuse them.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1055879If they do release PDFs of the other three books, it's perfectly acceptable to charge for them,
I never said otherwise.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1055879although I do feel backers should get them for free as it wasn't an option during the KS.
Why? You already said the box is worth it to you as is, so why are you entitled to more free stuff? Meanwhile, MCG kept its end of the agreement it made with you (which specifically did -not- include any future free PDFs it might sell).