Quote from: droogI wonder if it's ever occurred to Nox that the Afghans have always been trouble no matter what their religion. Fuck, I'd be trouble if I lived in a shithole like that. Let's not forget that the reason the Taliban gained widespread support was that they looked better than any other alternative.

The fact that past US governments effectively spoon fed the little monster Taliban until it was big enough to shit all over Afghanistan was the main reason it came to power.So it is an irony that America's pet monster came back to haunt it later.

Quote from: AnthrobotI never implied that the Taliban were anything other than nasty authoritarian killers.It is a pity that a country supposedly liberated by America is still intent on murdering religious converts.

I wasn't suggesting you were, sorry if I gave that impression.

That said, I don't think it's looking too liberated right now, the focus on Iraq has led to Afghanistan being largely ignored with terrible consequences.

Yeah, the Taliban pretty much control everwhere that isn't the capital and even then they're strong enough to venture into towns and make death threats to schools where they teach girls and things like that.

Modern-day Afghanistan's not much more liberal than in was nder the Taliban and it's arguably a good deal less safe.

Back to the OP

In my youth when I was in a Christianity-based cult whose initials are the same as a major UK furniture manufacturer they convinced me to bin all of my gaming stuff and quite a lot of my music collection.  This I deeply regret, particularly the 1st ed AD&D books

Having returned the bastion of relative sanity that is the Church of England, most people at church know I'm a gamer and game designer (even if it's at the level of "kind of like Dungeons and Dragons") and no-one cares.  The people who are a bit closer to me know some details about Year of the Zombie and seem quite impressed that I've managed to disguise advice on disaster preparedness and how to make tough moral choices as a game

Quote from: Dominus NoxRetard. "The mob" does NOT openly and publicly murder people on camera in public places for all to see, when they di it they have to do it covertly. The klan does not openly and blatantly murder people in public on video for all to see, they have to do it covertly and risk capture, arrest, trial, prison and even execution.

That's because the mob and the klan don't run america. The fucking taliban ran afghanistan and operated openly because they were the government and the power in that country.

Ahh, what's the use? Your skull is denser than solid neutronium, no matter what anyone shows you you'll just parrot "America is as bad!"


Forget it.

And that proves WHAT about Islam? Again, cunt.

Let's get down to the very core of it all Nox: you just hate them because you hate them. All your other reasons, culled from media-presented images, are only excuses. You see what you want to see, because some night you were watching Fox news when that one neuron in your brain fired and forever burned "Islam" next to "Steve Jackson", "George Bush", "my 8th grade math teacher", and "rational human thought", in that category of "Stuff Nox Always Hate".

And, probably, because you associate them with non-whites.

RPGPundit

Quote from: AnthrobotIn 2006 in Afghanistan, Abdul Rahman was sentenced to death for converting to christianity.This was a sentence not brought about by the Taliban, but by the government of Hamid Karzai, set up by the American led coalition.How liberated is that Nox?
Rahman eventually escaped execution after intense international pressure and by pleading insanity.He became an asylum seeker in Italy. So much for American 'liberation'.

Again, all of this tells us that the problem here is Afghanistan; not Islam.

Two of my close friends are Afghani, one of them is the nephew of one of the main warlords of the Northern Alliance, who now governs one of the provinces of Afghanistan.

He's told me some pretty amazing stories about that country, all of which have made one thing brutally clear to me: That country is one of the world's hallmark examples of a place which has never received civilization.  It never went beyond the tribal system, and that's still all that they really work with and believe.  Their Islam is of the most primitive sort, mixed in with all kinds of local customs and superstitions, and of course mixed in with the aforementioned utter lack of civilized culture.

They would be like this if they were Muslim, Christian, or Zoroastrian.  Fuck, I'm betting that back when they were Buddhist they still cut open people's stomachs just to watch them die.

RPGPundit

Quote from: HodgsonThis is a really interesting book I'm currently reading about Afghanistan:


"Unexpected Light" by Jason Elliot.

Many, if not most, of the guys fighting the rise of the Taliban in Afganistan were also muslims.

According to Elliot's accounts before the Taliban (or Taleban as it was spelled back then) came to power they were considered by many Afghan muslims to be drunks, drug dealers and fanatics who were very far from The Book.   And funded by the American government, which made them doubly untrustworthy.

Yes, obviously. But careful you don't blow up Nox's little mind.  The Americans were the ones who funded the Mujahadeen, the direct precursor to the Taliban (and CONTINUED to fund the Taliban afterwards, just prior to invading Afghanistan, I mean like months prior, the US had sent them hundreds of millions of dollars, supposedly to "combat drugs").

Meanwhile, who was opposing the Taliban? Muslims.

But I bet that when he thinks of the Northern Alliance he imagines blond-haired adonises with leiderhosen.

RPGPundit

Quote from: droogThe thing is that comparing the US to Afghanistan in order to point out the flaws of Islam is not comparing like with like. Let's instead compare Afghanistan with Rwanda, where both Hutus and Tutsis were Catholics.

Very good example. Condemning Islam for the Taliban and Al-qaeda is like condemning the Catholic Church because of the Rwandan genocide and the IRA.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonHaving returned the bastion of relative sanity that is the Church of England, most people at church know I'm a gamer and game designer (even if it's at the level of "kind of like Dungeons and Dragons") and no-one cares.  The people who are a bit closer to me know some details about Year of the Zombie and seem quite impressed that I've managed to disguise advice on disaster preparedness and how to make tough moral choices as a game

Ah yes, but that's the good old C of E.  I swear, you could show your local vicar your membership card in the Esoteric Order of Dagon while your wife mentions her circean mystery-cult ritual night on tuesday, and he wouldn't bat an eye ("Yes, well.. that's all just fine old fellow. After all on Wednesday I go down to the Lodge, and on Friday the missus gets rodgered by Voodoo priests, you know. Just as long as you're in the pews on Sunday, and aren't getting mixed up with those bloody papists!").

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAh yes, but that's the good old C of E.  I swear, you could show your local vicar your membership card in the Esoteric Order of Dagon while your wife mentions her circean mystery-cult ritual night on tuesday, and he wouldn't bat an eye ("Yes, well.. that's all just fine old fellow. After all on Wednesday I go down to the Lodge, and on Friday the missus gets rodgered by Voodoo priests, you know. Just as long as you're in the pews on Sunday, and aren't getting mixed up with those bloody papists!").

Slight tangent, but I'm currently reading a book by the CoE's Deliverence Study Group (cue banjo music) and it's interesting to note that the index doesn't have any mention of the Freemasons despite including all the other major occult groups.  It's all very British.  Most paranormal problems can be solved by a nice cup of tea and a quiet chat, but - just in case - here's the Minor Rite of Exorcism (if you want the Major one you'll need to apply to the Bishop and he'll send the boys round)

Quote from: RPGPundit"Yes, well.. that's all just fine old fellow. After all on Wednesday I go down to the Lodge, and on Friday the missus gets rodgered by Voodoo priests, you know. Just as long as you're in the pews on Sunday, and aren't getting mixed up with those bloody papists!"

LOL!  I am so totally seeing Stephen Fry in my minds eye right now.

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonBack to the OP

In my youth when I was in a Christianity-based cult whose initials are the same as a major UK furniture manufacturer they convinced me to bin all of my gaming stuff and quite a lot of my music collection.  This I deeply regret, particularly the 1st ed AD&D books

Having returned the bastion of relative sanity that is the Church of England, most people at church know I'm a gamer and game designer (even if it's at the level of "kind of like Dungeons and Dragons") and no-one cares.  The people who are a bit closer to me know some details about Year of the Zombie and seem quite impressed that I've managed to disguise advice on disaster preparedness and how to make tough moral choices as a game

Last night, one of my friends called me up to see how I was doing (I had some medical tests done recently).  We chitchatted for a while, and somehow we got on the purported topic of this thread.  He says, "You mean, you don't remember what happened to me at the Baptist church?"  I replied no, and he told his story.

He was 15 and his parents had sent him off to Bible Camp.  At some point during this event, the kids there were given a speech about the evils of RPGs and how everyone who played them was going to hell.  This bothered my friend, so he asked to talk to a camp counselor.  The counselor simply reiterated that RPGs were satanic and my friend was going to burn in hell for all eternity with murders and rapists for liking RPG books.

My friend was at an age and a state of mind where this disturbed him.  People in authority were telling him he was evil and in the same category as mass murderers and rapists because he liked games.  So, he decided to visit his local church's pastor (or reverend, or whatever they call the head dude at the local church) and talk with him.  He rationalized that maybe the counselor was misguided and someone wiser and more knowledgable would shed more light on the subject.

So, he visited the pastor and was once again told in no uncertain terms that RPGs were satanic.  It was a sin to even have one nearby.  He was once again told he was going to hell and was going to burn for all eternity because RPGs were as vile a sin as genocide.  But the pastor went one further.  He banned my friend from church until such time as he publically burned all his RPGs and repented before the Lord.

"That was why I was free to game on Sundays after that." my friend explained.  He had actually been told that he wasn't welcome at church because he was a role player.

Quote from: Gabriel"That was why I was free to game on Sundays after that." my friend explained.  He had actually been told that he wasn't welcome at church because he was a role player.

I haven't got to it yet, but there's a whole chapter in the book I'm reading about dealing with the fallout from that kind of abuse

Quote from: HodgsonThis is a really interesting book I'm currently reading about Afghanistan:


"Unexpected Light" by Jason Elliot.

Many, if not most, of the guys fighting the rise of the Taliban in Afganistan were also muslims.

According to Elliot's accounts before the Taliban (or Taleban as it was spelled back then) came to power they were considered by many Afghan muslims to be drunks, drug dealers and fanatics who were very far from The Book.   And funded by the American government, which made them doubly untrustworthy.

Thank you for one of the few intelligent, well informed and level headed posts in this recent rash of anti-muslim threads.

Not to mention there are between 4,000 and 15,000 muslim troops in the US army fighting terrorism and protecting our freedom every day.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack/43546_chaplains20.shtml

Quote from: Hastur T. Fannon

it's interesting to note that the index doesn't have any mention of the Freemasons

The who now?

RPGPundit