How well does the Job Dice mechanic work out?
We play a one-shot last session and it was a great game. There was one element that confused me a bit from the rulebook and that, being a one-shot, we glossed over and that was Job Dice.
If I recall, the job is supposed to end when the group has all the Job Dice they need. How well does that work out in actual play, however?
Seanchai
You shouldn't ignore that in a one shot, it's an essential part of the game, it lets everyone control the pacing of the game.
Basically, every time the PCs roll for something (and it's not one action, they roll for acting out basically an entire scene) they get dice if they succeed. When those dice total the "Job Dice" requirement of the mission, it's over.
I only know the German translation - I guess Job Dice are those dice that are generated by successfull rolls and needed to close a mission?
In that case, you explicitly don't _have_ to end the mission. You _can_ play further (especially to finish a mission in regard of narration, not only in regard of mechanics), but can't win more Job Dice.
In my experience, this rule is extremely needed. It rarely happened in my Inspectres sessions that the Job Dice were full just in time.
It should also be noted that you _can_ abort a mission before you have enough Job Dice, but this results in an additional reduction of your won Job Dice. (I can hardly imagine to see this result in practice though.)
There's a german translation? By whom?
There was one - the company (Disaster Machine Productions) has never created something else, and since its homepage is now dead since several months I guess they're gone for good. The guy behind this was Jürgen Mayer (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=140), who might be known by foreigners due to his mild activity on the Forge. At least to my knowledge, there isn't any other RPG activity attached to him like own games, zine publishing or convention organizing.
The only other notable people in the credits (apart from Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards and of course Jared A. Sorensen) are Oliver Hoffmann and Oliver Graute from Feder&Schwert (Engel; translations of WoD, D&D and Warhammer). I don't know how they've helped to create the translation, because they can only be found in the general "thank you"-section - I guess they just counseled a bit in regard of printing, publishing and distribution.
It was anyway mostly a labour of love - according to various sources there are only around 100 copies of German InSpectres (a meager figure even for the small German RPG market), and with 15€ a pop it's clear that it was never intended to be published to make a living from that.
According to the imprint in my book, this was 2003, quite quickly after the release of the original.
I don't have the original to compare, but the changes are mostly localised names and places (e.g. Nürnberg instead of SanFran) and new artwork by André Breinbauer. The only samples I can find online are these:
http://www.automixis.com/bilderordner/vampirekilling-for-dummies.jpg
http://www.automixis.com/bilderordner/hallo-mutter.jpg
http://www.automixis.com/bilderordner/erste-mahnung.jpg
(The vampire-killing bit is IMHO the best one and was accompanied by a excerpt from the fictional book - a step-by-step instruction comic where is shown how to apply hammer and peg to the heart of a sleeping vampire.)
Wow. I wish I could get a hold of a copy of that! I know I want a copy of Ron Edwards' Spione auf Deutsch as well, since I know I'll never play it. I can practice my German that way.
Interested in selling yours?
I'm not willing to sell it, as is probably almost everyone else who had the luck to get ahold of one of the few copies.
To find one is tough now 4 years after the release. I just checked Fantasy Encounter in Essen to look if I can help you that way (which were 1 year ago the last shop to still have some copies left), and even they are now out of stock, despite charging 30€ per book.
It might be possible that it pops up on Ebay, but that should be a rare occurence with that low print run.
Quote from: joewolzYou shouldn't ignore that in a one shot, it's an essential part of the game, it lets everyone control the pacing of the game.
We didn't ignore it. We set a level for the adventure (seven Job Dice, if I recall) and handed them out, but didn't bother to conceptualize their role in the game or, really, do anything with them but set them aside.
I guess what I'm wondering is, what happens if the PCs get a few good rolls early in the game and meet their quota in the first two hours of a five hour session, what then?
I see that you can continue after you've met your quota, but why use the earning Job Dice mechanic if that's going to be fairly common?
And do they really represent in an abstract way clues or resources needed to solve the case? If so and if the players met the quota early on in the session, how does that work?
I'm down with Job Dice being XP and awarded to the Franchise, but I'm not sure how well they work out in play...
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiWe didn't ignore it. We set a level for the adventure (seven Job Dice, if I recall) and handed them out, but didn't bother to conceptualize their role in the game or, really, do anything with them but set them aside.
You don't hand them out at the beginning of the adventure, you hand them out as players rolls dictate...and even then they are put to the side as a kind of meter, showing people where they are in the adventure.
Quote from: SeanchaiI guess what I'm wondering is, what happens if the PCs get a few good rolls early in the game and meet their quota in the first two hours of a five hour session, what then?
When that happens with my group, we end the session and crack a beer...sometimes we start a new adventure. There's a chart in the book that sets up a location, client, and motivation (IIRC) and that's always been enough for us.
Quote from: SeanchaiI see that you can continue after you've met your quota, but why use the earning Job Dice mechanic if that's going to be fairly common?
It's not that common if you set the Job Dice quota at 15...which should be about right for a five hour session. Pacing on the part of the GM becomes important. Sometimes it's better, pacing wise, just to let the PCs do what they want instead of rolling.
Quote from: SeanchaiAnd do they really represent in an abstract way clues or resources needed to solve the case?
Yes! They represent the players narrating things. As the players succeed on their rolls, they make up the clues and narrate the outcomes of their actions. The GM needs to roll with this, as their stories will not line up with anything written out. That's a feature, not a bug.
Quote from: SeanchaiIf so and if the players met the quota early on in the session, how does that work?
The session ends, in my experience.
Quote from: SeanchaiI'm down with Job Dice being XP and awarded to the Franchise, but I'm not sure how well they work out in play...
They are rewarded as XP later, yes, but in play they don't do anything but act as a meter. They're just an easily visible way of deciding when the adventure is almost done.
Quote from: joewolzYou don't hand them out at the beginning of the adventure, you hand them out as players rolls dictate...
Yeah. Sorry, I meant that to be an indication that we used them as described in the book.
Quote from: joewolzIt's not that common if you set the Job Dice quota at 15...which should be about right for a five hour session.
That many?
Quote from: joewolzThat's a feature, not a bug.
Yeah. But you don't have to sell me on the game. We played it and I'm inquiring about it because we're probably going to play again.
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiYeah. But you don't have to sell me on the game. We played it and I'm inquiring about it because we're probably going to play again.
I wasn't selling it...obviously you bought it and like it! My brother also loves the game, but has never figured out the system. It was not my intention to sound mean.
Fifteen job dice is not a lot. For a two to three hour session, I start with 10.
Quote from: joewolzIt was not my intention to sound mean.
Not mean. It's all inSpectres love here.
Seanchai
I would make an enthusiastic post, but Joe has more expertise with InSpectres than me. Has anybody here looked into Lacuna?
A five hour InSpectres game is brutally long. Shoot for 2-3 hours to start.
Quote from: Jared A. SorensenA five hour InSpectres game is brutally long. Shoot for 2-3 hours to start.
It went well. Once I disconnect the link between Job Dice and session length, I think we'll be good.
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiIt went well. Once I disconnect the link between Job Dice and session length, I think we'll be good.
Seanchai
I think that kinda ruins the game though.
Quote from: joewolzI think that kinda ruins the game though.
It won't be a big change, I don't think. I'll still Job Dice give 'em out normally, use 'em to represent clues, use them for XP, and use 'em to represent the overall toughness of the scenario, but remove the direct connection between the Job Dice quota and ending the scenario. That's already kind of optional - you can keep playing after you meet the quota.
Seanchai