Insider Information on the new Edition of Dungeons & Dragons

Zachary The First · June 07, 2014, 11:44:41 AM

Quote from: Warthur;756254Well, there's a simple test you can do: plonk the Basic PDF and the Pathfinder SRD in front of someone who's interested in gaming but doesn't have prior experience with either system, and see which they prefer to learn from.

The problem with that, though (interesting an idea as it is!), is I think many people learn socially in RPGs--they join a group, and sort of learn in conjunction with the group. So wouldn't it also be a question of group utility?

I grant you, it'll be interesting to see how it is received--the PRD doesn't strike me as too daunting (see here), but I suppose it could be, if a person is just reading on their own.

dar · June 07, 2014, 01:12:47 PM

And all of this thanks to the OGL.

Sommerjon · June 07, 2014, 02:18:08 PM

Quote from: Warthur;756233Let's underscore that, because that's the really huge departure here and I don't think it's emphasized enough. Wizards is basically saying that thanks to the Basic PDF, nobody ever needs to buy a single RPG product from them again.

The PHB? Optional. The MM? Optiional. The DMG? Optional. Any future splatbooks and supplements? Even more optional. The Starter Set? Very fucking optional.

Of course, thanks to the shift to seeing D&D as a brand under which a plethora of products can blossom rather than an RPG and a bunch of tie-ins, Wizards can afford to do this. They make their real money with boardgames and MMOs and other revenue sources and the RPG is there less as a revenue generator (though revenue is of course welcome) and more as a testbed for producing IP to make other stuff out of. But even so, this is huge. This is a major player on the market saying two really important things:

More obviously, they are saying that they are going to live or die by the quality of product they make. If everything is optional, then they are conceding that they can't expect to sell you a book just because it's necessary to run the latest hot adventure path or whatever. In other words, they are making a commitment to trying to make quality products which you will get excited about and want to buy, rather than feeling expected to buy.

The subtler aspect, and the thing which might make this gamble worthwhile, is that they are saying "Nobody should need to pay anything to play our game or join our community, so here's the means to do just that." If D&D 5E is both popular enough that you can find a game in most towns where there's any RPG presence at all, and you don't need to buy anything to get involved, and the basic rules are simple enough to keep thee barrier to learning and starting play as low as possible, that could be huge.

Really?

That is some mighty fine drugs you be on.

LibraryLass · June 07, 2014, 02:31:40 PM

Quote from: Sommerjon;756313Really?

That is some mighty fine drugs you be on.

You have everything you need to play in a free product. What's not true about that?

Sommerjon · June 07, 2014, 03:01:57 PM

Quote from: LibraryLass;756318You have everything you need to play in a free product. What's not true about that?

Who is going to play with only the Basic PDF?

LibraryLass · June 07, 2014, 04:35:57 PM

Quote from: Sommerjon;756328Who is going to play with only the Basic PDF?

Irrelevant. The point is that you can, if so inclined, and there is no need to buy the rest unless one chooses to.

Omega · June 07, 2014, 09:43:03 PM

Quote from: LibraryLass;756318You have everything you need to play in a free product. What's not true about that?

What if you wanted to play a Barbarian or Bard and that was delegated out of Basic? (Unlikely, but the Q&A mentioned a limited class loadout.)

Moldvay BX is a complete game. Technically you could play Mentzer BECMI with just the BE part. It is still a limited experience though. But a darn good one.

We will see soon enough just what all is and is not in the Basic.

Bedrockbrendan · June 07, 2014, 09:54:34 PM

Quote from: Sommerjon;756328Who is going to play with only the Basic PDF?

No idea. I imagine some gamers might if they like the basic system and don't want to spend any money. While I personally still like having hard copy in my hand, I do know a lot of gamers who are happy to use, even prefer to use, PDFs when running or playing games. As time goes by I also find myself getting more used to the idea of people having laptops or tablets at the table for that purpose.

Marleycat · June 07, 2014, 09:57:45 PM

Quote from: Omega;756405What if you wanted to play a Barbarian or Bard and that was delegated out of Basic? (Unlikely, but the Q&A mentioned a limited class loadout.)

Moldvay BX is a complete game. Technically you could play Mentzer BECMI with just the BE part. It is still a limited experience though. But a darn good one.

We will see soon enough just what all is and is not in the Basic.

You get AD&D of course but your point is valid and only caused by TSR wanting Arenson out of the financial pie. Hence not by choice D&D vs.AD&D two complete games by the same company in direct competition. WotC isn't that stupid.

Marleycat · June 07, 2014, 10:03:22 PM

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;756410No idea. I imagine some gamers might if they like the basic system and don't want to spend any money. While I personally still like having hard copy in my hand, I do know a lot of gamers who are happy to use, even prefer to use, PDFs when running or playing games. As time goes by I also find myself getting more used to the idea of people having laptops or tablets at the table for that purpose.

Yep. Also I do know plenty that would just use BASIC, most actually have some way (friends) to download, print and bind it for others either free, cheap, or on an easy installment plan. If they can't do it themselves.

It's not a SRD it's a complete game even I might print it and use a 3-ring binder to consolidate it. Just to have it handy to use as a baseline to decide what should or shouldn't be in my game as suppliments come out in a quick but fair way.

Simlasa · June 07, 2014, 10:21:52 PM

Quote from: Sommerjon;756328Who is going to play with only the Basic PDF?

IF I play it at all that will be how I go into it and I really doubt I'll be hankering for the other 3 books... though maybe for the monsters book, those are always fun.
AFAIC... a Barbarian is a Fighter, played like barbarian. I'm not sure what a Bard is... if a player were to ask for it I'd probably say it was a Fighter with an instrument... Alan-A-Dale or Johnny Guitar. If they need some 'official' version it's not likely I'd be gaming with them anyway.

LibraryLass · June 07, 2014, 11:02:01 PM

Quote from: Omega;756405What if you wanted to play a Barbarian or Bard and that was delegated out of Basic? (Unlikely, but the Q&A mentioned a limited class loadout.)

Moldvay BX is a complete game. Technically you could play Mentzer BECMI with just the BE part. It is still a limited experience though. But a darn good one.

We will see soon enough just what all is and is not in the Basic.

Is B/X an incomplete game because it does not have every class that's in AD&D?

Marleycat · June 07, 2014, 11:17:46 PM

Quote from: LibraryLass;756427Is B/X an incomplete game because it does not have every class that's in AD&D?

No both are complete in the strictest sense of the definition it's just that 5e BASIC gives you this generation's BMXI free it was never actually supposed to go beyond X. You were supposed to go into AD&D. Personally I said fuck this bullshit and used 1/2e in an unholy mix that guarantees my ticket to hell.

It wasn't supposed to go beyond the second expansion before you went to AD&D. But the actual starter box was far too complete for legal reasons and stupidity. Much like OGL is for any intelligent business or people therein not to use like a crack whore much like Pathfinder. It's just too easy and obvious not to.

Omega · June 08, 2014, 02:53:39 AM

Quote from: LibraryLass;756427Is B/X an incomplete game because it does not have every class that's in AD&D?

BX is its own self contained system. B is though somewhat incomplete without X. Playable to be sure. But 3 levels is a bit short.

Closer analogy might be how 3rd or 4th kept certain races and classes out of the core books. So they felt slightly incomplete.

With Next's Basic though we dont know whats in and whats not. Just the Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue? That is enough for most of us. But some may feel its incomplete without the Paladin, Ranger, Druid, etc.

Marleycat · June 08, 2014, 03:05:21 AM

Quote from: Omega;756492BX is its own self contained system. B is though somewhat incomplete without X. Playable to be sure. But 3 levels is a bit short.

Closer analogy might be how 3rd or 4th kept certain races and classes out of the core books. So they felt slightly incomplete.

With Next's Basic though we dont know whats in and whats not. Just the Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue? That is enough for most of us. But some may feel its incomplete without the Paladin, Ranger, Druid, etc.

Yes 4/4 is the core it's not 3/4e why do you think there's such uproar and entertainment for me at ENWorld and TBP from certain posters? They just can't grasp what's actually happened yet. WotC is entering the modern RPG landscape with MONEY. WotC is doing what TSR intended to do 30 years ago....BASIC is D&D the Big 3 are AD&D. All completely compatible ready to mix and match like 2e but no limits beyond your own. Even multiclassing is pure optional.