I'm willing to wait and see but if this train requires an electronic device of any kind to fully realize chargen then I'm off before it even reaches the station.

Quote from: GameDaddy;750992Raise your hand if there was even a single day when, for whatever reason, you just couldn't get together with your gaming peeps. What did you do?

Got out the rules book, and made yourself happy ...by creating new characters, and trying out new variations for the next game you would all play together!!!

I agree that this is part of the fun of gaming, but honestly, as a GM who often had to cope with last minute cancellations or gaming droughts, I didn't need a rulebook or character creation instructions to make up NPCs and cool settings.

As a PLAYER, though, yeah I guess that one would, if they wanted to create new characters mechanically and not just conceptually.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;750998I'm willing to wait and see but if this train requires an electronic device of any kind to fully realize chargen then I'm off before it even reaches the station.

I have a feeling that this feature will only be tied to the Starter Kit. If you get the full books I'd assume that you'd have everything you'd need.

Quote from: GameDaddy;750992Raise your hand if there was even a single day when, for whatever reason, you just couldn't get together with your gaming peeps. What did you do?

Got out the rules book, and made yourself happy ...by creating new characters, and trying out new variations for the next game you would all play together!!!

See, this may be a generational thing, because sitting around solo-generating PCs (many of whom would presumably never see actual play) is very, very low on the list of things I'd do to kill time on a lazy day when my gaming peeps aren't around, considering how many distractions are available to me.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;750998I'm willing to wait and see but if this train requires an electronic device of any kind to fully realize chargen then I'm off before it even reaches the station.

I'm with you on that one.

Are they going to overhaul the DDI character builder? (I don't keep up with these things)

or are they just going to leave it there hanging like a vestigial limb?

I'm not deep into using specific apps, but it's simply too easy to manage a campaign on Google Docs/Obsidian Portal/using PDF's etc. with a tablet or laptop on hand.

But if you don't own a laptop/tablet... I could understand the the frustration of missing out (if indeed this is the case) on chargen PDFs/apps. The whole cagey nature of this rollout seems weird to me. /shrug

We'll all know soon enough.

Quote from: tenbones;751014The whole cagey nature of this rollout seems weird to me. /shrug

We'll all know soon enough.

Yeah, I don't get why they're being timid either. If there's some intermediate tier of product or offering which will make this all make sense and win us around, shouldn't they be trumpeting that as loud as they can?

As it stands, the way I see it we have two possibilities: either Wizards have genuinely changed their approach and there's some surprising product coming along which will make all of this make sense and save the Starter Set from being crippleware, or Pundit's been fooled into pissing away his credibility as a zealously uncompromising defender of real gaming over this starter box. I'm going to hope that Pundit's right, on the basis that if he's wrong my disappointment will be soothed by the royal roasting he'll get on here.

Whilst I agree that a roleplaying game should be playable without requiring a smartphone/tablet/computer, there is a massive opportunity for Wizards to create some official D&D apps.

Off the top of my head, I would start off with a fairly simple "Player's Assistant"-type app that supports the generation and maintenance of multiple characters, with the ability to do contextual rolls (e.g. a Listen check of Average difficulty, would automatically incorporate the applicable modifiers, as opposed to a simple 1d20+x+y+z rolls which you then compare against the target number).

Tie it into a website that replicates the app's functionality, keeps an audit trail of all rolls/tests, stat adjustments, XP usage, etc., and allows you to export your character sheet as a PDF to print off.

Freemium pricing model - you can create and manage one character for free. If you want more, you pay an annual subscription.

Later, add DM functionality and a "DM's Assistant" app, and charge a slightly higher amount for a DM subscription. Experiment with offering adventures as a package of online content that you buy and use through the website/app.

There's so much revenue-generation potential in embracing smartphones and tablets as a medium to complement the traditional tabletop, pen'n'paper roleplaying experience. It continues to astound me that Wizards (and Games Workshop) are essentially leaving money on the table.

Currently at $17.99 on Amazon. That's £10.65, and people are moaning. I spent double that on beers yesterday. What do you want for £10/$17, who cares if there isn't charater gen included.

The Player's handbook is at $40.48 on Amazon. That's £24, and people are moaning. £24, that's lunch and a few ales, pizza and a movie.

Is America that broke that $40 dollars is considered a lot of cash? Really? The last lot of Academic books I bought came to $337, for four books. If people are so aggrieved about the costs they really need to reconnect with reality.

Quote from: Dodger;751017There's so much revenue-generation potential in embracing smartphones and tablets as a medium to complement the traditional tabletop, pen'n'paper roleplaying experience. It continues to astound me that Wizards (and Games Workshop) are essentially leaving money on the table.

As a compliment to the game I have no objections. As an integral part of the game I won't touch it.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;751023As a compliment to the game I have no objections. As an integral part of the game I won't touch it.

Did you miss the bit where I said:

Quote from: Dodger;751017..I agree that a roleplaying game should be playable without requiring a smartphone/tablet/computer...

Here's another post from RPG Pundit: https://plus.google.com/108006304228021078063/posts/AEAWuzFiBfz

What's going to happen is neither exactly an online chargen tool or an SRD (actually, either of those may or may not be in the works, I can neither confirm nor deny that, but that's not what Mike Mearls was talking about).

Wizards is NOT "still working out the details"; I had myself been informed of the general plan for all this back around October-November of last year, and was told some of the specifics (of what is now fully planned and going ahead) back around Mid-March.[/QUOTE]

I think people are sort of missing the point of the starter set. To me at least the starter set = basic dnd. There are no character gen options in Basic dnd other then im gonna play this archetype. You dont need online builders or phone apps for the basic set, because there arn't that many options and thats a good thing. What the starter set does is teach people how to play dnd. How to hit things, how to sneak and search, what all of funny words mean.
What it also hopefully does is set up a solid framework upon which to add options. Just like when I bought my 2nd ed MM as a kid and used it with B/X for quite some time before buying an ADnD PHB. And those two systems weren't even 100% compatible. So as long as its the same as difference between Dnd and ADnD its not "crippleware"

Quote from: elfandghost;751019Is America that broke that $40 dollars is considered a lot of cash? Really?

In some cases, sure, but really we're just overly wealthy of entitlement and rage.

Another thought: if the Starter Set is just the four core classic races and the Greyhawk Four classes, and the rules are stripped of all the options so it's a game of ability modifiers, ability saves, and dis/advantage, and that set is aimed at GMs, it's conceivable there isn't even a need for formal chargen rules. If the game is b/x simple (or simpler), even a passing familiarity with the pregens and the base rules could give the DM all the knowledge needed to crank out super simple PCs (and by extension teach the process).

Or what if the player equivalent of the Starter Set, with the chargen, is a small print pamphlet that Wizards just gives away everywhere? As in, for free. Talk about putting D&D in the hands of the masses. "Want to try D&D? Here's everything you need to make a character, here's what to expect, now find a game! Can't find one? Run one! Buy the Starter Set.." Hell "roll 3d6 in order" fits on a bookmark and might be all you need, coupled with advancement tables and equipment lists in the Starter Set.

Really I understand why everyone is assuming online tools but we really don't know yet, and anyone who actually knows is saying, "wait and see," which is perhaps not comforting but is interesting.

And while I agree making characters is a primal, necessary part of the hobby, especially for newbies,  it is amusing to watch guys who could accidentally fart out a 1e Paladin in their sleep bitch about lack of chargen rules.

Quote from: CitrusMagic;751028There are no character gen options in Basic dnd

what

Quote from: matthulhu;751030And while I agree making characters is a primal, necessary part of the hobby, especially for newbies,  it is amusing to watch guys who could accidentally fart out a 1e Paladin in their sleep bitch about lack of chargen rules.

That's some amazing cognitive dissonance you've got going there.