My theory is that there will be an online tool of some sort, easily reached via pc or mobile, which grants the user access to all of the classes and races for character creation (and levelling up to say... 5). Like, ALL of them, from an always updated database. That would be pretty cool, actually.

But since the focus will be simple usability for new players, it might be more than just a flat database. It will probably be made to guide the player's choices somehow.

I don't mind electronic access for rpgs these days. Now that I'm a family man, pdfs and text doctuments are far more affordable and take up less precious space.

Theres too much conflicting information and not enough information anymore to say what the hell the boxed set will be or what the three books will be.

So its back to "wait and see" till more is known.

I'm wondering whether there will be conversion notes so that you can port over existing PCs into the game. No char-gen rules because you've already created a character under a different edition.

That way, skeptics can try the game with characters they've already used in other editions to decide whether they want the full monty or not when the 3 core books come out.

Quote from: Warthur;750960What if the core entry point includes a link to the basic-level character generation document and says "use this to make your own characters"? Crippled or not crippled?

Incomplete game in the starter box equals crippled plain and simple.

Quote from: One Horse Town;750976I'm wondering whether there will be conversion notes so that you can port over existing PCs into the game. No char-gen rules because you've already created a character under a different edition.

That way, skeptics can try the game with characters they've already used in other editions to decide whether they want the full monty or not when the 3 core books come out.

That's a good, no, great idea, but what if you are a NEW player and just want to create your own character instead of using a pre-gen?

I've talked myself down from the ledge. RPGPundit says he likes it. That's good enough for me.

I'm filled with ambivalence and ennui but I'm not ready to stab the devs in the nuts like I was last night.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;750979I've talked myself down from the ledge. RPGPundit says he likes it. That's good enough for me.

I'm filled with ambivalence and ennui but I'm not ready to stab the devs in the nuts like I was last night.

They don't understand D&D at all. Not one bit. ...Not sure why they are even selling this.

The single best selling D&D book of all time included chargen. They are still so busy showing everyone how much smarter they are compared to the guys and gals who originally designed and sold D&D that they are missing the boat on what really needs to be in place for them to have a bestseller.

All they have to do is look at their rivals. Pathfinder, the current bestselling iteration of D&D, happens to include chargen.

To omit that from an introductory set designed to introduce people to the game, is to omit an important part of the game from the introductory set.

dumb. dumb. dumb.

Out of the entire lifespan of the development of 5th ed., I've never been more confused than I am right now.

A starter set that doesn't contain chargen but players can create characters. A starter set that is aimed at DMs...DMs that apparently don't need chargen. However that chargen is available somehow. But it isn't a pdf because then it might as well have been in the box, and also because if it was only that (or only an online character builder) then Pundit wouldn't think it was all that neat. Crippleware that must be crippleware but isn't crippleware.
A game that beats D&D at its own game in sales develops a beginner box and virtually everyone (even those who don't care for the game itself) heaps praise and universally says: "FINALLY!" buys it to show their support and then D&D says "Meh. Why bother matching or one-upping our competitor?"

320 x 3 pages to pretend to be an elf.

Truly tis wondrous strange.

From a personal standpoint, the only thing that would outrage me would be an online paywall for basic character generation, and I'm almost certain that's not what they have in mind.

However, I can understand the frustration expressed by others concerning the need for some kind of chargen feature in the basic set.

I don't know how this is going to be reconciled, but his track record says that Pundit is neither a liar nor a fool and there's obviously more to this than what we've heard so far, so I'd recommend that we all wait at least a few more days and see how it plays out.

...Well doing online RPG stuff is just not a good idea. There are so many better iterations of this already out there, and WOTC demonstrated conclusively that they can't compete in that arena... Gleemax failed. Not sure how the D&D character builder fared that was a part of the online paywall they had setup because I never subscribed... not even for a trial.

The guy that introduces people to pen & paper tabletop games, and leaves them with a set of rules to figure out how to play on their own? That's me. ...Except I'm not leaving them with any game that doesn't have built-in rules for creating new characters.

If I was to teach someone how to build an online RPG, I would have them download a copy of Unity3d and Blender, and get them working on building their own 3d game... with chargen.

...In all of these scenarios, there is no room for a starter set that doesn't include chargen.

...Also want to keep away from fostering a dependence on any set of rules that may, or may not be there, in the future.

You have a great set of rules online? ...Great

What happens when your website goes down?

What happens when the power goes out?

What happens when your gamers are all at summer camp, with no electricity, and no cell coverage?

What happens when the batteries die on your droid or ipad or whatever...

What happens when for whatever reason, you can't pay your monthly subscription?

In all of these cases, If you have a game that is available from some website or as part of an online database, when you have no access, you have no game.

Compare that to a starter set that is printed, that includes Chargen rules. Players can still play, ...and they don't have to pay.

Which is better?

Which is better for the players?

So why isn't it being done that way?

I love how everyone here is jumping to the conclusion that this is all about some online functionality when neither Mearls nor Pundit have said anything of the sort.

Quote from: The_Shadow;750940I'm getting flashbacks to "shut up! you're not the target market!"

Ding.

Quote from: GameDaddy;750982They don't understand D&D at all. Not one bit. ...Not sure why they are even selling this.

The single best selling D&D book of all time included chargen. They are still so busy showing everyone how much smarter they are compared to the guys and gals who originally designed and sold D&D that they are missing the boat on what really needs to be in place for them to have a bestseller.

All they have to do is look at their rivals. Pathfinder, the current bestselling iteration of D&D, happens to include chargen.

But including chargen in your starter set is so 2011! These days all the kids are into online apps! :rolleyes:

Quote from: S'mon;750989But including chargen in your starter set is so 2011! These days all the kids are into online apps! :rolleyes:

I'm sure Pathfinder has some great online apps. Probably designed by faithful players.

My point is, that chargen should be included as part of the service. It's really all about hidden systems that deliver unforgettable customer experiences, and chargen just happens to be one of those systems.


Raise your hand if there was even a single day when, for whatever reason, you just couldn't get together with your gaming peeps. What did you do?

Got out the rules book, and made yourself happy ...by creating new characters, and trying out new variations for the next game you would all play together!!!

It's a subsystem that is suitable for solitaire play. It is a subsyetm of RPGs that has more than one applicable use.

But not with 5e. Wasn't included with the starter set.

Really the only difference between a B/X character and a "pregen" is a name and maybe a picture. If the set describes how to use the 4 pregen pcs and what their abilities are, then it has described how to play archetype fighter, rogue, wizard, and cleric. The rest of character generation is roll 3d6, pick equipment.