In D20 games, how does your group handle increasing HP when characters level up?
Looking back over the different groups I've been in, there have been four main ways:
- You roll your hit die and add it to your previous total.
- As above, but if the roll sucks, you can roll again.
- You roll and the GM rolls, and you can pick the best.
- No rolling, just use the max of the hit die.
I'd say #2 and #4 has been the most popular. #3 is my favorite.
How about you?
Max HP possible at first level.
Sometimes I have 2nd level be the best of two rolls.
After that, 1 dice roll per level. The character should be well ahead of the average at that point.
Though Starfinder has me thinking about having just a set number per level.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1106689Max HP possible at first level.
Right, I should have mentioned that all of the four different ways did that.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1106689Though Starfinder has me thinking about having just a set number per level.
Does it use the average of the hit die?
Max first level. After that a roll of 1 or 2 becomes a 3.
Reroll all your hit dice in whatever class you leveled up in. Take the new roll if it exceeds your current hit points. You can have the PCs start with max hit points, or even CON hit points and it won't affect their total when they are high level.
Rerollling all of them tends to result in a slightly higher than average total over the course of the character's career. A few levels of bad rolls can be wiped out with one good roll.
I use the average on the die rounded up. I don't like the wizard getting lucky and having more HP than the barbarian.
Quote from: Aglondir;1106691Does it use the average of the hit die?
It actually has a set number instead of dice. For example, the Vesk race start with 6 hit points, the Soldier class gets 7 hit points per level. So a 1st level Vesk Soldier would have 13 hit points.
*Edit, Con affects stamina, not hit points.
For D&D I use the same method as hedgehobbit. Max* hp at level 1. Reroll all hp every level, take the new result if higher.
*If playing ad&d, Rangers start with 8 + d8 and monks get 4 + d4. As I recall, the general consensus on Dragonsfoor when I discussed this years ago was that this is wildly unfair to Rangers and Monks, but I'm not seeing it.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1106697I use the average on the die rounded up. I don't like the wizard getting lucky and having more HP than the barbarian.
I also do this. In my experience, players aren't excited to roll their hit die - but more often just dislike rolling low.
Also, using the average makes it easy to determine what a character's hit points should be. I find that mistakes in character leveling are common, so it's nice to be able to take a character and tell if they're correct.
Pre-3e HP was usually just rolled each level. 2e introduced some optional methods. Think Unearthed Arcana did for AD&D as well.
Post 2e things have bounced around a it. In 3 and 5e you start with max HP and then have players roll for HP each level there after Additionally in 5e the DM can choose the optional use of an average each level.)
4e starts the PC off with alot of HP and then you gain a set amount each level. example the cleric, ranger, rogue, warlock and warlord starts with 12 and gains 5 per level. The fighter and paladin starts with 15 and gains 6 per level. The wizard starts with 10 and gains 4 per level.
Personally for 5e I gave the players the option of either taking the average of their HD roll, or rolling and taking their chances.
Quote from: Aglondir;1106688In D20 games, how does your group handle increasing HP when characters level up?
Looking back over the different groups I've been in, there have been four main ways:
- You roll your hit die and add it to your previous total.
- As above, but if the roll sucks, you can roll again.
- You roll and the GM rolls, and you can pick the best.
- No rolling, just use the max of the hit die.
I'd say #2 and #4 has been the most popular. #3 is my favorite.
How about you?
For 5e D&D I use the recommended system - take the high average, or roll if you're feeling lucky.
For 1e-3e/PF I generally used roll, but you always have at least the average total hp for your level.
#1, or #4.
Usually #4 at first level, then #1 at each level after first.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1106697I use the average on the die rounded up. I don't like the wizard getting lucky and having more HP than the barbarian.
We've always used a variant of this: you keep rolling until you get in the top half of your die range. So everyone has above average hp, but higher HD classes most likely have higher totals.
Quote from: jhkim;1106716I also do this. In my experience, players aren't excited to roll their hit die - but more often just dislike rolling low.
Also, using the average makes it easy to determine what a character's hit points should be. I find that mistakes in character leveling are common, so it's nice to be able to take a character and tell if they're correct.
I use the same process for the same reasons. I've got of new players that are borderline casual. Occasionally one will level and forget to add hit points at all.
Number one because it's Number One! :cool: It is more hardcore and therefore that makes me better than others. :p
(Actually it is a challenge, and it tends to change the game into eschewing excess combat for XP's sake. I like that implication, like an unintended effect that becomes an indirect means to modulate the party's aggression level. In a Stable of PCs game that means extra HP from higher lvls or Fighters can afford more aggression, and becomes an interesting player choice before the adventure begins. Number One style HP led to interesting player self-moderation and party-modulation.)
HP increases have always bugged me. It makes absolutely no sense to have some humans with 4 HP and some with 54 HP. A couple of solutions:
- HP dice roll kept low, like OD&D. Even an 11th level fighter bad-ass was lucky to have 25 HP. Same problem in theory, but works fairly smoothly in application.
- Increases are infrequent. See Pundit's solution in L&D. Going up a level means you MIGHT have an HP increase, but then again you might not.
- Rules tweaks to make HP function more like fatigue, with actual injury being shuffled off to Con damage or some other tracker. I think Crypts and Things utilizes a tweak like this. It's not perfect but it allows you to keep your characters FLAILSNAIL-able.
- Damage tolerance ability doesn't level at all. It's biological and relatively constant. If you still want an HP stat you can just make it equal to Con or old d100 standard, CON+SIZ /2 or CON+SIZ for more robust characters.
- Non numeric injury mechanic. More realistic, but harder to adjudicate. I still hope to come up with a good way of managing this one day.
Quote from: Brendan;1106806See Pundit's solution in L&D. Going up a level means you MIGHT have an HP increase, but then again you might not.
For those of us who don't have L&D, can you elaborate on this?
Quote from: Brendan;1106806Rules tweaks to make HP function more like fatigue, with actual injury being shuffled off to Con damage or some other tracker. I think Crypts and Things utilizes a tweak like this. It's not perfect but it allows you to keep your characters FLAILSNAIL-able.
Is that like VP and WP?
5e and Mutants & Masterminds are the only d20 games I still touch. In the former, I always use the fixed hit points per level. In the latter, there are no hit points.
Quote from: Aglondir;1106859For those of us who don't have L&D, can you elaborate on this?
Is that like VP and WP?
Each time a character goes up a level in L&D there's an advancement benefit table. You can roll on the table for two benefits, or pick one. For example, the fighter advancement table is 1d12. Die rolls of 1-2 indicates +1d8+Con hit points. Every other roll is some other kind of fighter benefit. In theory you could build a character that's entirely a HP tank, but the reward of two random rolls vs one deliberate choice, and having other meaty benefits besides HP, like to hit, initiative or extra attack bonuses, encourage the player to let fate decide.
Crypts and Things rules that HP constitutes some mixture of fatigue, bumps and bruises, and other "minor" cosmetic damage. HP loss returns completely after a long rest, and even a short rest or a swig of booze will replenish some. Con damage, whether direct or due to HP hitting 0 is "real" damage and injury. Any con loss will result in an "injured" state which gives -2 to all actions. Each loss of con requires a save vs. unconsciousness and a con of 0 means you're dead.
I started with just roll the dice. Too bad about your 2 HP level 1 fighter.
Then switched to max dice for first level, reroll a new die each level.
Then switched to max dice for first level and average rounded up for new die each level, e.g. 1d6 = 4, 1d8=5, 1d10=6, etc.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1106696Reroll all your hit dice in whatever class you leveled up in. Take the new roll if it exceeds your current hit points.
Last time I reread my OD&D rules that was a reasonable interpretation of what the rule was.
One method nobody has mentioned: for the first four years that I played D&D, in a multiverse with more than 10 DMs, the rule for HPs was that the DM rolled them at the start of the expedition and tracked them secretly; you could have the minimum for one expedition and the maximum the next, but you didn't know. One DM who was adamant that you did not know what your HPs were applied CON bonuses as increasing the size of the hit dice, so the average went up but you could still have the minimum. I remember a 3rd level cleric getting killed by a single hit doing d4 damage. Knowing your HP total and that it didn't change seemed very strange when I first encountered it.
For 5e, I follow the max of the hit die at 1st level, average rounded up thereafter as in the 5e PHB; mostly for compatibility with AL rules but partly because it seems better.
Quote from: Brendan;1106873Each time a character goes up a level in L&D there's an advancement benefit table. You can roll on the table for two benefits, or pick one. For example, the fighter advancement table is 1d12. Die rolls of 1-2 indicates +1d8+Con hit points. Every other roll is some other kind of fighter benefit. In theory you could build a character that's entirely a HP tank, but the reward of two random rolls vs one deliberate choice, and having other meaty benefits besides HP, like to hit, initiative or extra attack bonuses, encourage the player to let fate decide.
Very cool.
Quote from: Brendan;1106873Crypts and Things rules that HP constitutes some mixture of fatigue, bumps and bruises, and other "minor" cosmetic damage. HP loss returns completely after a long rest, and even a short rest or a swig of booze will replenish some. Con damage, whether direct or due to HP hitting 0 is "real" damage and injury. Any con loss will result in an "injured" state which gives -2 to all actions. Each loss of con requires a save vs. unconsciousness and a con of 0 means you're dead.
That's alot like VP and WP, which is one of my favorite variants.
I often give PCs max HP. It won't save them, but it makes them feel good.
I'm currently playtesting the idea of "adventure variable HP" where you roll you PCs' HP at the start of each new adventure, especially as HP's reflect health, fate, luck, etc. Thus, for most adventures, you have your average, occasionally you roll really high or really low and have that experience for the session.
Quote from: Aglondir;1106936Very cool.
That's alot like VP and WP, which is one of my favorite variants.
Yeah, L&D is full of clever applications like this. It's one of the more innovative OSR designs out there and worth picking up to steal.. er I mean, "borrow" from, even if you never plan on running a straight L&D game (although it looks like a great game).
I'm not familiar with VP and WP. Link?
Quote from: Brendan;1107037I'm not familiar with VP and WP. Link?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm
First debuted with Star Wars D20 in 2000.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1106948I'm currently playtesting the idea of "adventure variable HP" where you roll you PCs' HP at the start of each new adventure, especially as HP's reflect health, fate, luck, etc. Thus, for most adventures, you have your average, occasionally you roll really high or really low and have that experience for the session.
I might try that next time, but allow for the max at Level 1, so a 5th level fighter would roll 4d10 + 10.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1106948I'm currently playtesting the idea of "adventure variable HP" where you roll you PCs' HP at the start of each new adventure, especially as HP's reflect health, fate, luck, etc. Thus, for most adventures, you have your average, occasionally you roll really high or really low and have that experience for the session.
Have you considered having only the GM know exact HP that I described above? It does mean more work for the GM, but I dislike non-random damage in 5e because players start reasoning that they can take two opportunity attacks due to knowing exactly what damage an opponent does and what HP they have; they have to take more risks if they are only reasoning about averages.
Quote from: Brendan;1107037Yeah, L&D is full of clever applications like this. It's one of the more innovative OSR designs out there and worth picking up to steal.. er I mean, "borrow" from, even if you never plan on running a straight L&D game (although it looks like a great game).
Thanks, very kind of you!
Quote from: Aglondir;1106859Is that like VP and WP?
I see someone else was a fan of d20 Star Wars RCR. :D
I've always thought that making the Toughness feat let you take the better of two rolls for HP would be more useful, than just a static +1 HP per level. It would make it obviously far more attractive to man-at-arms types, where the opposite is true for the current incarnation of Toughness.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1108816Thanks, very kind of you!
Thank you for making it!
I like how The Expanse RPG handles their "hit points." They call them by a more accurate name: Fortune Points, because that's what hit points really are. Characters start with 15 Fortune Points at level 1 (they can get +5 more if they pick that benefit when selecting a Drive).
From levels 2-10, they go up by 3 per level. From levels 11-20 (max level), they go up by 2 per level.
Fortune Points serve the following functions:
- Change the facing of one die to a facing of your preference. Must spend Fortune Points equal to the facing you desire. Example: one of your d6s (you roll 3d6s) is a 1 and you failed your roll by 3. You can then spend 3 Fortune Points to change that die from a 1 to a 3.
- Change the facing of your Drama Die to a facing of your preference. Must spend Fortune Points equal to the facing you desire x2. The reason it's more expensive is because the Drama Die produces stunt points when you roll doubles, which are used to do special maneuvers. The Drama Die also determines your degree of success, if it's relevant.
- Reduce the amount of damage you receive. Your constitution score serves as damage reduction along with any armor you're wearing. Any leftover damage requires Fortune Points to eliminate (on a 1 per 1 basis).
If you are dealt enough damage that you don't have sufficient Fortune Points to eliminate, you take on the Injured condition and roll 1d6 to further mitigate damage (hoping to mitigate it to zero). If you still have damage left over, take the Wounded condition and roll 1d6 to further mitigate damage (hoping to mitigate it to zero). If you still have damage left over, you are taken out, and the nature of the attack determines whether you are Unconscious or Dying. You can always elect to forgo the damage mitigation roll and be taken out, but on your terms.
You can recover Fortune Points in the following ways:
- Rest for 8 hours to recover 10 + your level in Fortune points
- Engage in a favored activity during an interlude to recover 10 + your level in Fortune points
- Engage in a non-favored activity during an interlude to recover 5 + your level in Fortune points
Recovering from Injured and Wounded conditions have their own rules and that's when medical skills and gear come into play.
For many years I've allowed every PC 5 re-rolls when they are created. They can be used on almost anything: rolling stats, hit points, starting money, hit rolls, saving throws, etc, etc. A new PC will have at least half of their maximum hit points when created (rounded up). So thieves, mages, clerics and fighters will have at least 3,4,5 and 6 hit points (respectively) at first level.
I always liked the stars without number approach, though i have seen it before that game? can't remember where off the top of my head.
Rolling all your hit dice every time you level and if you rolled higher than previous that becomes your new hit point value. It awards luck but things tend to balance out the higher level you become.
Quote from: Graytung;1109161Rolling all your hit dice every time you level and if you rolled higher than previous that becomes your new hit point value. It awards luck but things tend to balance out the higher level you become.
Empire of the Petal Throne (76). It's what I do. It also lets you award extra hit points at first level without the character getting extra hit points at high levels.
Quote from: Elfdart;1109124For many years I've allowed every PC 5 re-rolls when they are created. They can be used on almost anything: rolling stats, hit points, starting money, hit rolls, saving throws, etc, etc. A new PC will have at least half of their maximum hit points when created (rounded up). So thieves, mages, clerics and fighters will have at least 3,4,5 and 6 hit points (respectively) at first level.
That's a cool idea. Hit rolls and saving throws would only be relevant after character creation, so I guess these can be saved; can you say what the proportions are of how the rolls are used? I would expect stats and saving throws to be the most common rerolls, since you can probably fix other things at character creation (like low starting money or hit points) by advancing, and a single to hit roll is probably not going to be decisive while a single failed save can easily mean death.
(Wait; thieves have
less hit points than mages?)
#1 for my current Dungeon Crawl Classics game.
I've played in D20 games where you got max hit die for your 1st level and rolled for each level after that.