Number one because it's Number One! :cool: It is more hardcore and therefore that makes me better than others.

(Actually it is a challenge, and it tends to change the game into eschewing excess combat for XP's sake. I like that implication, like an unintended effect that becomes an indirect means to modulate the party's aggression level. In a Stable of PCs game that means extra HP from higher lvls or Fighters can afford more aggression, and becomes an interesting player choice before the adventure begins. Number One style HP led to interesting player self-moderation and party-modulation.)

HP increases have always bugged me.  It makes absolutely no sense to have some humans with 4 HP and some with 54 HP.  A couple of solutions:
- HP dice roll kept low, like OD&D.  Even an 11th level fighter bad-ass was lucky to have 25 HP.  Same problem in theory, but works fairly smoothly in application.
- Increases are infrequent.  See Pundit's solution in L&D.  Going up a level means you MIGHT have an HP increase, but then again you might not.    
- Rules tweaks to make HP function more like fatigue, with actual injury being shuffled off to Con damage or some other tracker.  I think Crypts and Things utilizes a tweak like this.  It's not perfect but it allows you to keep your characters FLAILSNAIL-able.
- Damage tolerance ability doesn't level at all.  It's biological and relatively constant.  If you still want an HP stat you can just make it equal to Con or old d100 standard, CON+SIZ /2 or CON+SIZ for more robust characters.  
- Non numeric injury mechanic.  More realistic, but harder to adjudicate.  I still hope to come up with a good way of managing this one day.

Quote from: Brendan;1106806See Pundit's solution in L&D.  Going up a level means you MIGHT have an HP increase, but then again you might not.  

For those of us who don't have L&D, can you elaborate on this?

Quote from: Brendan;1106806Rules tweaks to make HP function more like fatigue, with actual injury being shuffled off to Con damage or some other tracker.  I think Crypts and Things utilizes a tweak like this.  It's not perfect but it allows you to keep your characters FLAILSNAIL-able.

Is that like VP and WP?

5e and Mutants & Masterminds are the only d20 games I still touch. In the former, I always use the fixed hit points per level. In the latter, there are no hit points.

Quote from: Aglondir;1106859For those of us who don't have L&D, can you elaborate on this?


Is that like VP and WP?

Each time a character goes up a level in L&D there's an advancement benefit table.  You can roll on the table for two benefits, or pick one.  For example, the fighter advancement table is 1d12.  Die rolls of 1-2 indicates +1d8+Con hit points.  Every other roll is some other kind of fighter benefit.  In theory you could build a character that's entirely a HP tank, but the reward of two random rolls vs one deliberate choice, and having other meaty benefits besides HP, like to hit, initiative or extra attack bonuses, encourage the player to let fate decide.  

Crypts and Things rules that HP constitutes some mixture of fatigue, bumps and bruises, and other "minor" cosmetic damage. HP loss returns completely after a long rest, and even a short rest or a swig of booze will replenish some.  Con damage, whether direct or due to HP hitting 0 is "real" damage and injury. Any con loss will result in an "injured" state which gives -2 to all actions.  Each loss of con requires a save vs. unconsciousness and a con of 0 means you're dead.

I started with just roll the dice. Too bad about your 2 HP level 1 fighter.
Then switched to max dice for first level, reroll a new die each level.
Then switched to max dice for first level and average rounded up for new die each level, e.g. 1d6 = 4, 1d8=5, 1d10=6, etc.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1106696Reroll all your hit dice in whatever class you leveled up in. Take the new roll if it exceeds your current hit points.

Last time I reread my OD&D rules that was a reasonable interpretation of what the rule was.

One method nobody has mentioned: for the first four years that I played D&D, in a multiverse with more than 10 DMs, the rule for HPs was that the DM rolled them at the start of the expedition and tracked them secretly; you could have the minimum for one expedition and the maximum the next, but you didn't know. One DM who was adamant that you did not know what your HPs were applied CON bonuses as increasing the size of the hit dice, so the average went up but you could still have the minimum. I remember a 3rd level cleric getting killed by a single hit doing d4 damage. Knowing your HP total and that it didn't change seemed very strange when I first encountered it.

For 5e, I follow the max of the hit die at 1st level, average rounded up thereafter as in the 5e PHB; mostly for compatibility with AL rules but partly because it seems better.

Quote from: Brendan;1106873Each time a character goes up a level in L&D there's an advancement benefit table.  You can roll on the table for two benefits, or pick one.  For example, the fighter advancement table is 1d12.  Die rolls of 1-2 indicates +1d8+Con hit points.  Every other roll is some other kind of fighter benefit.  In theory you could build a character that's entirely a HP tank, but the reward of two random rolls vs one deliberate choice, and having other meaty benefits besides HP, like to hit, initiative or extra attack bonuses, encourage the player to let fate decide.  

Very cool.

Quote from: Brendan;1106873Crypts and Things rules that HP constitutes some mixture of fatigue, bumps and bruises, and other "minor" cosmetic damage. HP loss returns completely after a long rest, and even a short rest or a swig of booze will replenish some.  Con damage, whether direct or due to HP hitting 0 is "real" damage and injury. Any con loss will result in an "injured" state which gives -2 to all actions.  Each loss of con requires a save vs. unconsciousness and a con of 0 means you're dead.

That's alot like VP and WP, which is one of my favorite variants.

I often give PCs max HP. It won't save them, but it makes them feel good.  

I'm currently playtesting the idea of "adventure variable HP" where you roll you PCs' HP at the start of each new adventure, especially as HP's reflect health, fate, luck, etc. Thus, for most adventures, you have your average, occasionally you roll really high or really low and have that experience for the session.

Quote from: Aglondir;1106936Very cool.




That's alot like VP and WP, which is one of my favorite variants.

Yeah, L&D is full of clever applications like this.  It's one of the more innovative OSR designs out there and worth picking up to steal.. er I mean, "borrow" from, even if you never plan on running a straight L&D game (although it looks like a great game).  

I'm not familiar with VP and WP.  Link?

Quote from: Brendan;1107037I'm not familiar with VP and WP.  Link?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm

First debuted with Star Wars D20 in 2000.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1106948I'm currently playtesting the idea of "adventure variable HP" where you roll you PCs' HP at the start of each new adventure, especially as HP's reflect health, fate, luck, etc. Thus, for most adventures, you have your average, occasionally you roll really high or really low and have that experience for the session.

I might try that next time, but allow for the max at Level 1, so a 5th level fighter would roll 4d10 + 10.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1106948I'm currently playtesting the idea of "adventure variable HP" where you roll you PCs' HP at the start of each new adventure, especially as HP's reflect health, fate, luck, etc. Thus, for most adventures, you have your average, occasionally you roll really high or really low and have that experience for the session.

Have you considered having only the GM know exact HP that I described above? It does mean more work for the GM, but I dislike non-random damage in 5e because players start reasoning that they can take two opportunity attacks due to knowing exactly what damage an opponent does and what HP they have; they have to take more risks if they are only reasoning about averages.

Quote from: Brendan;1107037Yeah, L&D is full of clever applications like this.  It's one of the more innovative OSR designs out there and worth picking up to steal.. er I mean, "borrow" from, even if you never plan on running a straight L&D game (although it looks like a great game).  

Thanks, very kind of you!

Quote from: Aglondir;1106859Is that like VP and WP?

I see someone else was a fan of d20 Star Wars RCR.

I've always thought that making the Toughness feat let you take the better of two rolls for HP would be more useful, than just a static +1 HP per level. It would make it obviously far more attractive to man-at-arms types, where the opposite is true for the current incarnation of Toughness.