Quote from: Géza Echs;722703How could anyone do fantasy cyberpunk?

Shadowrun, Chtulhutech, and/or Chtulhupunk would be prime examples to me.

Quote from: Brander;722712Shadowrun, Chtulhutech, and/or Chtulhupunk would be prime examples to me.

But all those games are science fantasy with cyberpunk elements at best, if not just science fiction (I'd say Cthulhupunk is science fiction horror [or just "weird fiction"], personally, but I haven't read Cthulhutech yet). They're not "fantasy" being used to produce cyberpunk. I mean, once you have advanced computing technology and / or cybernetics, you're out of the realm of fantasy.

Quote from: Géza Echs;722715But all those games are science fantasy with cyberpunk elements at best, if not just science fiction (I'd say Cthulhupunk is science fiction horror [or just "weird fiction"], personally, but I haven't read Cthulhutech yet). They're not "fantasy" being used to produce cyberpunk. I mean, once you have advanced computing technology and / or cybernetics, you're out of the realm of fantasy.

I see where you are coming from now.  To me, the differences would depend a lot on exactly what "cyberpunk" means to you.  If more "cyber" the tech can be replaced by magical re-skins of tech ("go-limbs" or magic implants for cybernetics, crystal ball interfaces to the astral plane to seek out knowledge spirits for decking).  If it's more about the "punk" then you pretty much just need some kind of disruptive societal elements, though to some extent fantasy feudalism is exactly the society that we see in much of cyberpunk, so it might be something more nuanced.

Quote from: Brander;722718I see where you are coming from now.  To me, the differences would depend a lot on exactly what "cyberpunk" means to you.  If more "cyber" the tech can be replaced by magical re-skins of tech ("go-limbs" or magic implants for cybernetics, crystal ball interfaces to the astral plane to seek out knowledge spirits for decking).  If it's more about the "punk" then you pretty much just need some kind of disruptive societal elements, though to some extent fantasy feudalism is exactly the society that we see in much of cyberpunk, so it might be something more nuanced.

I see what you're saying. I'm still having a hard time seeing how the fantasy genre could be used to produce a cyberpunk game, due to reason I've already said, but I think you've come up with an idea of the closest it could possible go.

I would call Shadowrun fantasy, it has all of the classical elements.

To Geza Echs point, D&D Dark Sun has most of the general themes of Cyberpunk covered. Ecological disaster, advanced technology (in the form of biological shaping, psionics, and psionic spells), an old and decrepit tyrannical power structure to work against in the form of the Dragon Kings.

Quote from: dragoner;722722I would call Shadowrun fantasy, it has all of the classical elements.

No offense meant, but that just beaks my brain. I can't make myself think of a game that's set in the near future, largely focuses on Western civilization, and has high-tech as a staple as a fantasy setting.

Quote from: jeff37923;722732To Geza Echs point, D&D Dark Sun has most of the general themes of Cyberpunk covered. Ecological disaster, advanced technology (in the form of biological shaping, psionics, and psionic spells), an old and decrepit tyrannical power structure to work against in the form of the Dragon Kings.

Hmm. I wasn't aware that the abilities in Dark Sun (psionics, etc) were technological in basis. That might fit the need, I suppose, and you've laid out the themes nicely, but I still have a hard time accepting it. I'm all for genre bending stuff (I did Bizarro fiction, for example), but even I have my limits, you know?

1: Post Apoc Science-fantasy = Gamma World (Before WOTC fucked it up) and After the Bomb.
2: Pseudo hard science fiction = Star Frontiers & Albedo (Before Zeb & Sanguine fucked them up.)
3: Space Fantasy = Spelljammer (Before WOTC fucked it up.)
4: Lovecraftian Horror = Call of Cthulhu.
5: Modern Horror = Beyond the Supernatural.
6: Superheroes = MSH and Aberrant. With a leaning to TMNT and Scraypers.
7: High Fantasy and Low Fantasy = AD&D Greyhawk.
8: Genre Collisions = TORG and to a lesser degree Rifts and Shadowrun.

Things I'd like to try some time.
A: a non-supernatural Western. Looking to eventually get Boot Hill.
B: Secret Agents: Eyeing Top Secret.
C: a non-fantasy collision Cyberpunk: Maybee Cyberpunk some day.

I am neutral on.
*: Generic science fiction: linear starships in particular. Probably why I like Star Frontiers so much.

Quote from: Géza Echs;722739No offense meant, but that just beaks my brain. I can't make myself think of a game that's set in the near future, largely focuses on Western civilization, and has high-tech as a staple as a fantasy setting.

Except it has Orcs, magic, etc.; the archetype of "science fantasy" is Star Wars. Most sci-fi fans would put Shadowrun in fantasy due to it's classical elements of fantasy that it includes. It is rather a genre-bender, but it also doesn't include most classical elements of sci-fi, like spacecraft, aliens, and such; which would seem to throw it back onto the fantasy side. Harry Potter wouldn't be called sci-fi, for example; I think of it more as fantasy.

Quote from: TristramEvans;719947Lol, yeah , that sums up why I don't play Rifts

Get the After the Bomb RPG book.

Quote from: dragoner;722749Except it has Orcs, magic, etc.; the archetype of "science fantasy" is Star Wars. Most sci-fi fans would put Shadowrun in fantasy due to it's classical elements of fantasy that it includes. It is rather a genre-bender, but it also doesn't include most classical elements of sci-fi, like spacecraft, aliens, and such; which would seem to throw it back onto the fantasy side. Harry Potter wouldn't be called sci-fi, for example; I think of it more as fantasy.

Depends on the references.

Of the sessions I got to play in. Only one had any actual magic in use. I do not count orcs execs and elf street samurai to be magic or fantasy.

The one session that did have magic was a pretty good example of the merger of the fantasy and the cyberpunk. A wage mage turning a failed robotics experiment into a small army of golems. Lots of spell slinging at the end too. But to get into his fort we had to deck into the security and fend off armed guards outside while doing so.

Ive never seen Shadowrun played as straight up fantasy.

Quote from: Géza Echs;722739Hmm. I wasn't aware that the abilities in Dark Sun (psionics, etc) were technological in basis. That might fit the need, I suppose, and you've laid out the themes nicely, but I still have a hard time accepting it. I'm all for genre bending stuff (I did Bizarro fiction, for example), but even I have my limits, you know?

Oh, no, you misunderstand me. The abilities in Dark Sun (psionics, etc) are not technological in their basis, but they can be viewed as technology in that particular setting.

 EDIT: For example, Magic. Magic when used by Defilers ruins the environment while Magic when used by a Preservers does not harm the environment. This matches nicely to the concept that technology can be used in coexistance with the environment or it can be used greedily to damage the environment.

Quote from: Rincewind1;722644I need to check GURPS out some day, when I have loadsamoney for the books/pdfs.

Most of those fantastic historical sourcebooks were for 3rd edition. GURPS 3E Revised was my entry drug into the hobby, but nowadays I primarily appreciate it for its sourcebooks. I'm completely unfamiliar with any of the stuff for GURPS 4E.

Star Wars is itself a collection of archetypes from earlier pulp science fiction: Buck Rogers, Flash Gorden, Rocketmen from the Moon, etc. Space Fantasy is actually a pretty old genre.

Quote from: TristramEvans;722814Star Wars is itself a collection of archetypes from earlier pulp science fiction: Buck Rogers, Flash Gorden, Rocketmen from the Moon, etc. Space Fantasy is actually a pretty old genre.

Star Wars' archetypes go back further than that. There is a reason they put Luke Skywalker on the cover of an edition of Campbell's, Hero with a Thousand Faces.