Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 16, 2024, 08:03:58 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:55:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2024, 03:32:06 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2024, 10:52:09 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 15, 2024, 09:32:06 AMI would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good

I have never said that the Heroes' Feast art is good. I have repeatedly said that I don't care for most of the art in the 2024 PHB because of what I consider to be a "whimisical Willy Wonka meets Tim Burton" feel that I get from it. I have also said that I don't mind sushi and tacos being in D&D (nor would I oppose racially diverse vikings in the same) because most D&D worlds these days (meaning for the last 30 years) are far more cosmopolitan than they are authentically medieval European.

And we all know that is the agenda. The "cosmpolitanism" of the left-coast cities are seen as the ideal society, the only "just" society, the closest thing to a "non-fascist" society, and if you want to run any other setting culture you are a monster. New gamers must be taught that only THAT society is the good one, and the only one that it is right to portray.

You gave away your game, dude.

Persecution complex much?

Have you considered that maybe the game leans towards cosmopolitanism is because they are trying to appeal to all sorts of audiences? Even within a group, but especially in a game store pick-up game, you get all types playing. If the setting mimics this, it's one less barrier for some.

So you are saying that if the fantasy world doesn't resemble the real world enough that some people may not want to play? That fantasy campaign world that in no way resembles a 2024 cosmopolitan city is a barrier to play?

Whatever you are smoking I would advise you to stop.

I second that.

There's a HUGE difference between playing yourself in a RPG vs play as someone else. Playing yourself in a RPG lacks creativity and shows narcissism. Plus, by playing yourself in an RPG, you bring with all of the hang ups, tropes, and bullshit from modern day. The very thing WoTC is doing with DEI.

Nobody cares about your fucking pronouns Gen Z. Nobody. Or your culturally diverse Mexican Orcs who bring Taco Bell to the dinner table, or with Japanese Elves with crunchy spicy sushi roll.

"Oh, look how culturally diverse we are! We're the BEST!"

Fuck off.

It's not inspiring. It's BORING. It just shows you WoTC, how completely creatively bankrupt you are.

WotC has made D&D into the McDonald's of RPGs: bland, uninspiring, appeals to all tastes, and after your done, you feel sick and guilty by consuming the greasy amalgam of DEI they just served you...and spend the next eight hours trying to purge it from your system. You remember pulling up to the drive thru: The robotic voice saying "are you ordering through our app today?" So cold and unfeeling. They tell you to "pull forward", without even a please. You pull up, wait maybe a minute or two, and quickly give you your meal with a fake smile. Ugh.

But wait! There's hope!

Just down the street there's the "Old School Renaissance Bar & Grill". You go there next time to give it a try. The menu looks good. It's not generic, and you can tell there's an overall theme. You can even mix and match items from other parts of the menu. Service is good too. You can tell the owner takes great care of his establishment. Place has a nice local feel to it: small, cozy. Great atmosphere. Nobody talks politics. It's frowned upon. TVs with all sorts of games on. If people talk, they talk about the game. How fun it is, or crazy, or how close it is. It's nice just talking about the game, the rules and having a good experience.

You get a burger with the works and some steak fires...and it's delicious. Cooked perfectly. Fries are seasoned right. Along with a nice local IPA, it really hits the spot. You know you will be back.

In fact before you leave, you see there's a message board with other business postings on it, some of them other local restaurants. Apparently the owner is a big supporter of local businesses. The owner notices you looking at the board. "Yeah, support local. We small guys need to stick together if we're gonna compete with the Golden Arches. But we're not in the same league. We do it better!" He laughs and bids you goodbye.

"Huh. This OSR thing seems pretty cool.", you think. "Screw the McDonald's. I'm OSR all the way now!"

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 08:28:21 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 13, 2024, 07:29:09 PMSo, you're afraid others might not accept you because your idea of D&D is too fragile for tacos and sushi.

I'm not. can give two shits what others people think. Read my sig, tough guy.

Anyway, if can't seriously see the point, then I'm done with you.

Good day, sir.

I hope you feel better soon.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 16, 2024, 08:03:58 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:55:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2024, 03:32:06 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2024, 10:52:09 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 15, 2024, 09:32:06 AMI would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good

I have never said that the Heroes' Feast art is good. I have repeatedly said that I don't care for most of the art in the 2024 PHB because of what I consider to be a "whimisical Willy Wonka meets Tim Burton" feel that I get from it. I have also said that I don't mind sushi and tacos being in D&D (nor would I oppose racially diverse vikings in the same) because most D&D worlds these days (meaning for the last 30 years) are far more cosmopolitan than they are authentically medieval European.

And we all know that is the agenda. The "cosmpolitanism" of the left-coast cities are seen as the ideal society, the only "just" society, the closest thing to a "non-fascist" society, and if you want to run any other setting culture you are a monster. New gamers must be taught that only THAT society is the good one, and the only one that it is right to portray.

You gave away your game, dude.

Persecution complex much?

Have you considered that maybe the game leans towards cosmopolitanism is because they are trying to appeal to all sorts of audiences? Even within a group, but especially in a game store pick-up game, you get all types playing. If the setting mimics this, it's one less barrier for some.

So you are saying that if the fantasy world doesn't resemble the real world enough that some people may not want to play? That fantasy campaign world that in no way resembles a 2024 cosmopolitan city is a barrier to play?

Whatever you are smoking I would advise you to stop.

Not quite. I'm more saying that parties tend to be assembled of combinations of characters that often look out of place outside of cosmopolitan settings. Since so many campaigns start at level 1, many of them assume that all of the PCs are from the geographical starting point, so those starting points tend to be cosmopolitan to not exclude most character options.

Remember, some people don't want to be called weird...

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 10:08:44 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 16, 2024, 08:03:58 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:55:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2024, 03:32:06 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2024, 10:52:09 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 15, 2024, 09:32:06 AMI would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good

I have never said that the Heroes' Feast art is good. I have repeatedly said that I don't care for most of the art in the 2024 PHB because of what I consider to be a "whimisical Willy Wonka meets Tim Burton" feel that I get from it. I have also said that I don't mind sushi and tacos being in D&D (nor would I oppose racially diverse vikings in the same) because most D&D worlds these days (meaning for the last 30 years) are far more cosmopolitan than they are authentically medieval European.

And we all know that is the agenda. The "cosmpolitanism" of the left-coast cities are seen as the ideal society, the only "just" society, the closest thing to a "non-fascist" society, and if you want to run any other setting culture you are a monster. New gamers must be taught that only THAT society is the good one, and the only one that it is right to portray.

You gave away your game, dude.

Persecution complex much?

Have you considered that maybe the game leans towards cosmopolitanism is because they are trying to appeal to all sorts of audiences? Even within a group, but especially in a game store pick-up game, you get all types playing. If the setting mimics this, it's one less barrier for some.

So you are saying that if the fantasy world doesn't resemble the real world enough that some people may not want to play? That fantasy campaign world that in no way resembles a 2024 cosmopolitan city is a barrier to play?

Whatever you are smoking I would advise you to stop.

I second that.

There's a HUGE difference between playing yourself in a RPG vs play as someone else. Playing yourself in a RPG lacks creativity and shows narcissism. Plus, by playing yourself in an RPG, you bring with all of the hang ups, tropes, and bullshit from modern day. The very thing WoTC is doing with DEI.

Nobody cares about your fucking pronouns Gen Z. Nobody. Or your culturally diverse Mexican Orcs who bring Taco Bell to the dinner table, or with Japanese Elves with crunchy spicy sushi roll.

"Oh, look how culturally diverse we are! We're the BEST!"

Fuck off.

It's not inspiring. It's BORING. It just shows you WoTC, how completely creatively bankrupt you are.

WotC has made D&D into the McDonald's of RPGs: bland, uninspiring, appeals to all tastes, and after your done, you feel sick and guilty by consuming the greasy amalgam of DEI they just served you...and spend the next eight hours trying to purge it from your system. You remember pulling up to the drive thru: The robotic voice saying "are you ordering through our app today?" So cold and unfeeling. They tell you to "pull forward", without even a please. You pull up, wait maybe a minute or two, and quickly give you your meal with a fake smile. Ugh.

But wait! There's hope!

Just down the street there's the "Old School Renaissance Bar & Grill". You go there next time to give it a try. The menu looks good. It's not generic, and you can tell there's an overall theme. You can even mix and match items from other parts of the menu. Service is good too. You can tell the owner takes great care of his establishment. Place has a nice local feel to it: small, cozy. Great atmosphere. Nobody talks politics. It's frowned upon. TVs with all sorts of games on. If people talk, they talk about the game. How fun it is, or crazy, or how close it is. It's nice just talking about the game, the rules and having a good experience.

You get a burger with the works and some steak fires...and it's delicious. Cooked perfectly. Fries are seasoned right. Along with a nice local IPA, it really hits the spot. You know you will be back.

In fact before you leave, you see there's a message board with other business postings on it, some of them other local restaurants. Apparently the owner is a big supporter of local businesses. The owner notices you looking at the board. "Yeah, support local. We small guys need to stick together if we're gonna compete with the Golden Arches. But we're not in the same league. We do it better!" He laughs and bids you goodbye.

"Huh. This OSR thing seems pretty cool.", you think. "Screw the McDonald's. I'm OSR all the way now!"

Interesting comparison... It's worth considering that the neighborhood bar & grill will never have the reach of McDonalds even if it's food is subjectively better. D&D is going for saturating a broad reach over nailing down a small neighborhood. Their investors certainly approve of this plan.

Meanwhile, all the spiteful old men can shake their fists together in their OSR dives.

McDonalds has reach but it's also garbage food, bland and uninspiring and generic slop to appeal to the masses.

Popular does not equal good.

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 10:26:09 AMMcDonalds has reach but it's also garbage food, bland and uninspiring and generic slop to appeal to the masses.

Popular does not equal good.

But it's a juggernaut that makes the $$$ and will outlast any little burger joint.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 10:29:19 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 10:26:09 AMMcDonalds has reach but it's also garbage food, bland and uninspiring and generic slop to appeal to the masses.

Popular does not equal good.

But it's a juggernaut that makes the $$$ and will outlast any little burger joint.

I don't think anybody has argued that though.  Just wotc's attempt to flanderize D&D with modern tropes and progressivism turns away people.  The problem is they are convinced those people are "the bad guys" so having them leave is a good thing.  They are so brainwashed that their side is moral and good and anyone who disagrees is evil, that it's polluted everything they do to make it clear they are on the "good side"

Same thing with Paizo.  I was legit super interested in Pathfinder until I found the lead dev's left-leaning political screed on social media, and it was clear because I don't agree with his views he would tell me I'm not wanted as a customer of the company (despite the fact the game should have no politics at all)

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 10:17:24 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 16, 2024, 08:03:58 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:55:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2024, 03:32:06 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2024, 10:52:09 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 15, 2024, 09:32:06 AMI would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good

I have never said that the Heroes' Feast art is good. I have repeatedly said that I don't care for most of the art in the 2024 PHB because of what I consider to be a "whimisical Willy Wonka meets Tim Burton" feel that I get from it. I have also said that I don't mind sushi and tacos being in D&D (nor would I oppose racially diverse vikings in the same) because most D&D worlds these days (meaning for the last 30 years) are far more cosmopolitan than they are authentically medieval European.

And we all know that is the agenda. The "cosmpolitanism" of the left-coast cities are seen as the ideal society, the only "just" society, the closest thing to a "non-fascist" society, and if you want to run any other setting culture you are a monster. New gamers must be taught that only THAT society is the good one, and the only one that it is right to portray.

You gave away your game, dude.

Persecution complex much?

Have you considered that maybe the game leans towards cosmopolitanism is because they are trying to appeal to all sorts of audiences? Even within a group, but especially in a game store pick-up game, you get all types playing. If the setting mimics this, it's one less barrier for some.

So you are saying that if the fantasy world doesn't resemble the real world enough that some people may not want to play? That fantasy campaign world that in no way resembles a 2024 cosmopolitan city is a barrier to play?

Whatever you are smoking I would advise you to stop.

Not quite. I'm more saying that parties tend to be assembled of combinations of characters that often look out of place outside of cosmopolitan settings. Since so many campaigns start at level 1, many of them assume that all of the PCs are from the geographical starting point, so those starting points tend to be cosmopolitan to not exclude most character options.

Remember, some people don't want to be called weird...

The starting place of a campaign can be whatever works for the DM and players. It can be a small town surrounded by wilderness. It would be up to the players working with the DM to come up with the reason that non-local PCs would be in town. Not every campaign has to begin in Seattle to accommodate all of the character types a DM has available in the campaign.

" Hey everyone. The campaign starts next week. You will begin play in the small town of Kerbitzfluffle during the fall harvest festival. Let me know what brings you to town."

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 10:22:11 AMInteresting comparison... It's worth considering that the neighborhood bar & grill will never have the reach of McDonalds even if it's food is subjectively better. D&D is going for saturating a broad reach over nailing down a small neighborhood. Their investors certainly approve of this plan.

Meanwhile, all the spiteful old men can shake their fists together in their OSR dives.

...While you eat from WoTC's pig trough like a good little piggy and consume their slop.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 01:55:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2024, 03:32:06 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 15, 2024, 10:52:09 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 15, 2024, 09:32:06 AMI would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good

I have never said that the Heroes' Feast art is good. I have repeatedly said that I don't care for most of the art in the 2024 PHB because of what I consider to be a "whimisical Willy Wonka meets Tim Burton" feel that I get from it. I have also said that I don't mind sushi and tacos being in D&D (nor would I oppose racially diverse vikings in the same) because most D&D worlds these days (meaning for the last 30 years) are far more cosmopolitan than they are authentically medieval European.

And we all know that is the agenda. The "cosmpolitanism" of the left-coast cities are seen as the ideal society, the only "just" society, the closest thing to a "non-fascist" society, and if you want to run any other setting culture you are a monster. New gamers must be taught that only THAT society is the good one, and the only one that it is right to portray.

You gave away your game, dude.

Persecution complex much?

Have you considered that maybe the game leans towards cosmopolitanism is because they are trying to appeal to all sorts of audiences? Even within a group, but especially in a game store pick-up game, you get all types playing. If the setting mimics this, it's one less barrier for some.

The kind of people who like the anti-heroic woke-focused gaming they've been promoting is about 8% of the population. And most of them only like the idea of it, they don't actually buy books.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 10:29:19 AM

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 10:26:09 AMMcDonalds has reach but it's also garbage food, bland and uninspiring and generic slop to appeal to the masses.

Popular does not equal good.

But it's a juggernaut that makes the $$$ and will outlast any little burger joint.

As the big two comic companies, Disney, Amazon, and various others have now proven, Woke never makes the "$$$", certainly not in the amounts that corporations want it to.

Gencon just fired all your best friends in their Woke Preaching division, btw.

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 10:59:41 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 10:22:11 AMInteresting comparison... It's worth considering that the neighborhood bar & grill will never have the reach of McDonalds even if it's food is subjectively better. D&D is going for saturating a broad reach over nailing down a small neighborhood. Their investors certainly approve of this plan.

Meanwhile, all the spiteful old men can shake their fists together in their OSR dives.

...While you eat from WoTC's pig trough like a good little piggy and consume their slop.

Do I? I've bought one book from them in the last 5 years. D&D isn't even close to being one of my favorite games. All I've been saying is that, art aside, the 2024 PHB is an improvement over the 2014 PHB. It really seems weird to me how many people that raved at 5e ten years ago are now super-serious determined to see it fail today. They say it's because of WotC's politics, but I believe it has at least as much to do with the politics of the naysayers flinging shit to try and make their own little games look more appealing by comparison.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 16, 2024, 11:31:18 AMGencon just fired all your best friends in their Woke Preaching division, btw.

I have no idea what you're talking about with this line. Care to explain or at least link to something explaining it?

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 12:13:22 PM

Quote from: blackstone on September 16, 2024, 10:59:41 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 16, 2024, 10:22:11 AMInteresting comparison... It's worth considering that the neighborhood bar & grill will never have the reach of McDonalds even if it's food is subjectively better. D&D is going for saturating a broad reach over nailing down a small neighborhood. Their investors certainly approve of this plan.

Meanwhile, all the spiteful old men can shake their fists together in their OSR dives.

...While you eat from WoTC's pig trough like a good little piggy and consume their slop.

Do I? I've bought one book from them in the last 5 years. D&D isn't even close to being one of my favorite games. All I've been saying is that, art aside, the 2024 PHB is an improvement over the 2014 PHB. It really seems weird to me how many people that raved at 5e ten years ago are now super-serious determined to see it fail today. They say it's because of WotC's politics, but I believe it has at least as much to do with the politics of the naysayers flinging shit to try and make their own little games look more appealing by comparison.

I haven't seen much complaints about the actual rules, at least from people who don't just hate the modern style anyway (and they probably didn't care for the 2014 version either). It's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 16, 2024, 12:35:02 PMIt's mostly the art and wotc disparaging Gygax and arneson as well as being "woke" and incredibly left leaning politically

So the people that despise D&D becoming a "lifestyle" and want it to go back to being about playing the game are upset about things that have no real impact on playing the game...