Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 08:20:02 AMThe characters often look like they walked out of a star bucks.

Really? What Starbucks have you visited that would support this leap of imagination?

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 14, 2024, 10:43:00 AM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 08:20:02 AMThe characters often look like they walked out of a star bucks.

Really? What Starbucks have you visited that would support this leap of imagination?

I don't think it is a leap at all. If you disagree that is fair, it is a subjective impression I have from the art I have seen. But the overall aesthetics of a lot of it seems very modern coffee house to me. The big thing is the hair colors. There are very modern hair colorings and styles with a lot of the characters I see. Ands the overall vibe as well

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 14, 2024, 10:43:00 AM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 08:20:02 AMThe characters often look like they walked out of a star bucks.

Really? What Starbucks have you visited that would support this leap of imagination?

Take your pick of any lefty progressive city.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 01:39:14 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 14, 2024, 10:43:00 AM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 08:20:02 AMThe characters often look like they walked out of a star bucks.

Really? What Starbucks have you visited that would support this leap of imagination?

I don't think it is a leap at all. If you disagree that is fair, it is a subjective impression I have from the art I have seen. But the overall aesthetics of a lot of it seems very modern coffee house to me. The big thing is the hair colors. There are very modern hair colorings and styles with a lot of the characters I see. Ands the overall vibe as well

"But, but... You'll never see Dwarves, Elfs, Orcs, etc in a Starbucks! Because they are fictional you bigot!"

HappyDaze probably

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 14, 2024, 01:57:08 PM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 01:39:14 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 14, 2024, 10:43:00 AM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 08:20:02 AMThe characters often look like they walked out of a star bucks.

Really? What Starbucks have you visited that would support this leap of imagination?

I don't think it is a leap at all. If you disagree that is fair, it is a subjective impression I have from the art I have seen. But the overall aesthetics of a lot of it seems very modern coffee house to me. The big thing is the hair colors. There are very modern hair colorings and styles with a lot of the characters I see. Ands the overall vibe as well

"But, but... You'll never see Dwarves, Elfs, Orcs, etc in a Starbucks! Because they are fictional you bigot!"

HappyDaze probably

One of the Starbucks we go to is in Salem Mass. You would be surprised how many people dressed as fantasy creatures show up lol

Really the worst part about this nonsense is people who can't understand that some things don't look wrong, while other things do.  A tostada or something wouldn't look as out of place as a hard shell taco that looks like it's from Taco Bell.  Sashimi wouldn't look as bad as California rolls from a sushi place.  The spaghetti, the piroulines, even the croissants are "wrong" but don't look egregiously so (the spaghetti is the worst offender here and that's because it looks like a bowl of pasta from an Italian restaurant, not just a plate of pasta + sauce).  Tomatoes, pumpkins, and potatoes don't look wrong even if they are.  Hell I'd accept a "sandwich" that looked like it was made ad-hoc with a crust of bread, meat, and cheese as being not insanely out of place, but if it looked like deli meat and slices of white bread it would look stupid.  Same thing with the hamburger; it looks wrong/out of place because it looks like a Whopper, not because it's bread+meat+cheese.  A medieval version of a burger wouldn't look like it came from Burger King.

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 14, 2024, 05:07:54 PMReally the worst part about this nonsense is people who can't understand that some things don't look wrong, while other things do.  A tostada or something wouldn't look as out of place as a hard shell taco that looks like it's from Taco Bell.  Sashimi wouldn't look as bad as California rolls from a sushi place.  The spaghetti, the piroulines, even the croissants are "wrong" but don't look egregiously so (the spaghetti is the worst offender here and that's because it looks like a bowl of pasta from an Italian restaurant, not just a plate of pasta + sauce).  Tomatoes, pumpkins, and potatoes don't look wrong even if they are.  Hell I'd accept a "sandwich" that looked like it was made ad-hoc with a crust of bread, meat, and cheese as being not insanely out of place, but if it looked like deli meat and slices of white bread it would look stupid.  Same thing with the hamburger; it looks wrong/out of place because it looks like a Whopper, not because it's bread+meat+cheese.  A medieval version of a burger wouldn't look like it came from Burger King.

I don't mind if people like it or think the tone is fine (D&D has had all kinds of tones over the years). What bothers me is people get outraged if you think things look a bit out of place. And for me, I think it just comes back to that mall food court look.

Also I don't know why people get so defensive about this stuff. I love the 2E art (especially early 2E), but if someone says the images looking posed for a group photo bothers them, or the aquanet hairdos bother them, I get what they are bothered by and it is just a simple difference of taste. The Ravenloft books often had art that was clearly using 16th and 17th century clothing. That bothered some people. I liked it. No skin off my back if someone disagreed or thought it looked stupid (it certainly isn't the sort of thing I would use to measure their character as a person) 

Greetings!

Well, WOTC should have included Chicken Tikka Masala, garlic Naan Bread, and rice as food in the artwork. I took my game group to an Indian restaurant that has an excellent reputation, and they got to experience so much awesome food. Lots of variety in flavors, textures, and colors. All was absolutely delicious. And the Mango Lassi is the best drink!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: blackstone on September 04, 2024, 12:19:08 PMI find it ironic, when it comes to Gen Z, they have this infatuation with food...

and yet most of them don't know how to cook.

  Taking a look at the majority of them though, they sure as hell know how to eat.  It is odd too, with the internet you can watch a video of a person cooking darn near anything in the world and do it your self.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 05:17:12 PMI don't mind if people like it or think the tone is fine (D&D has had all kinds of tones over the years). What bothers me is people get outraged if you think things look a bit out of place. And for me, I think it just comes back to that mall food court look.

Also I don't know why people get so defensive about this stuff. I love the 2E art (especially early 2E), but if someone says the images looking posed for a group photo bothers them, or the aquanet hairdos bother them, I get what they are bothered by and it is just a simple difference of taste.

I agree. It should be fine to differ on taste. There can be some people who like it, some people who don't, and some people who are neutral or undecided - especially because they haven't seen it yet. It isn't even in general release to buy until Sep 17th.

But some people say that you must have an opinion about it as a matter of politics, and if you have the wrong opinion - or if you say that it's just a matter of taste - then you're a fascist or Marxist. cf. https://www.therpgsite.com/index.php?msg=1291346

Quote from: S'mon on September 12, 2024, 11:50:11 AMWoTC D&D under Mearls did actually grow the hobby, & I saw more black players including black female players here in London, especially when Tomb of annihilation came out. I don't know how that held up with Crawford's plunge into rainbow-themed Seattle Wokeness.

Id be rather surprised of Tomb of Annihilation actually drew in more black people. It was oddly one of the few wotc did not push and tout for being oh so "inclusive". Or I somehow mercifully missed it.

Quote from: Omega on September 15, 2024, 01:25:34 AM

Quote from: S'mon on September 12, 2024, 11:50:11 AMWoTC D&D under Mearls did actually grow the hobby, & I saw more black players including black female players here in London, especially when Tomb of annihilation came out. I don't know how that held up with Crawford's plunge into rainbow-themed Seattle Wokeness.

Id be rather surprised of Tomb of Annihilation actually drew in more black people. It was oddly one of the few wotc did not push and tout for being oh so "inclusive". Or I somehow mercifully missed it.

I wouldn't.

The blacks I know care as little about wokism as everyone else and hate the way it turns good shows and sports to crap. If anything would get them into D&D it's be the removal of the social stigma (see Stranger Things, et al) and a solid non-wokism drenched campaign.

That's the truth of woke diversity policies... they're not even pushed by those they propose to "help" but by predominantly white women of the mentally-ill persuasion and white beta-males desperate for sex with said mentally ill women... all of whom feel immense guilt for their existences.

They hate themselves and want all reminders of how pathetic they are erased (ie. if no one can see good art and beauty then they won't realize how talentless and ugly they are).

So, no, actual non-woke adventures being what brings in black players is completely unsurprising to me.

Quote from: jhkim on September 14, 2024, 10:04:01 PM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 14, 2024, 05:17:12 PMI don't mind if people like it or think the tone is fine (D&D has had all kinds of tones over the years). What bothers me is people get outraged if you think things look a bit out of place. And for me, I think it just comes back to that mall food court look.

Also I don't know why people get so defensive about this stuff. I love the 2E art (especially early 2E), but if someone says the images looking posed for a group photo bothers them, or the aquanet hairdos bother them, I get what they are bothered by and it is just a simple difference of taste.

I agree. It should be fine to differ on taste. There can be some people who like it, some people who don't, and some people who are neutral or undecided - especially because they haven't seen it yet. It isn't even in general release to buy until Sep 17th.

But some people say that you must have an opinion about it as a matter of politics, and if you have the wrong opinion - or if you say that it's just a matter of taste - then you're a fascist or Marxist. cf. https://www.therpgsite.com/index.php?msg=1291346

At least identify that you are calling out RPGPundit with your quote.  Anyone (including him) who didn't click on your link wouldn't know that you are specifically criticizing him.  That's low, to take shots at him without at least using his name, so he doesn't immediately know it's about him.

I would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good, or the old "it's fantasy so it doesn't need to make sense" or, worse, the "You can accept halflings and elves and dragons but draw the line at tacos?" is left leaning, while everyone saying no it's stupid and even fantasy worlds need to have logical basis to feel "real" is not.

It's dawned on me that a vast number of modern "gamers" is imaginitively bankrupt.  They can't understand that things have to make sense in the world they exist in, you can't jus have nonsense like modern day food or 1 in every 10 vikings be black because "it's fantasy".  They don't understand how cultures develop, just think it's okay to do whatever and handwave it as "magic" while calling anyone who says that fantasy worlds still need a logical foundation as being "racists".

Quote from: Nobleshield on September 15, 2024, 09:32:06 AMI would bet money that basically everyone saying the Heroes Feast art is good, or the old "it's fantasy so it doesn't need to make sense" is left leaning, while everyone saying no it's stupid and even fantasy worlds need to have logical basis to feel "real" is not.

As media has gotten more politicized, I think it is true that peoples politics inform their opinions about these things more, and they also inform design choices more and more. That has always been true to a degree. It isn't like political messages in media are a new thing. But we are at a point now where you can almost predict a person's political positions based on their media criticisms. So I am not naive that this is grounded in a growing reality. That said, it is very frustrating if your opinion isn't based on politics to get labeled as one thing or another because other people are taking the political arena to film or games. Also when everything is political, people lie about their real feelings because they just want to put out the political message they agree with (i.e. "More tacos in D&D please!"). Personally I would rather not read peoples political positions into their views on the aesthetics of a movie or the art for a game. Obviously if they are making directly political statements while doing it, then that is a different story. People should just be honest with themselves about whether they like something, whether they think a choice designers/artists made is really good or really stupid, and we should be able to leave it as a debate about the content of what we are looking at. When I but a game or watch a movie, I don't make sure the director/designer's politics match my own before doing so.

Also it isn't like either side in these debates is going anywhere. This kind of discussion has been happening now for like ten years at least.