https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy

The Tippyverse is what happens when you look at DND magic and take it to its logical conclusions. Although it was for 3.5e DND, DND magic hasn't changed by much since then, so some of the assumptions still hold true (the 5e equivalent is https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/eyhlgn/the_wibblyverse_a_setting_where_the_5e_rules_as/) Now that I say this: how do you avoid your world from ending up like the Tippyverse? Do you

1. Change the rules of DND themselves directly (make magic more restricted)?
2. Change the expression of DND's rules (make DND's rules not the actual representation of a fictional reality)

How to avoid it?
Easy.
By having at least two functioning brain cells to rub together and realize this person is a complete moron along with the legion of complete morons who try to "end" all settings with claims like "werewolf plague!" "Specter plague!" "Dwagons can fwy!" and on and on ad fucking nausium absolutium.

Morons.

Quote from: Omega on December 19, 2022, 03:16:06 AM
How to avoid it?
Easy.
By having at least two functioning brain cells to rub together and realize this person is a complete moron along with the legion of complete morons who try to "end" all settings with claims like "werewolf plague!" "Specter plague!" "Dwagons can fwy!" and on and on ad fucking nausium absolutium.

Morons.

Omega is correct; the white-board theory crafting shits are to be ridiculed and ignored if you cannot physically disappear them into a stew.

Quote from: Omega on December 19, 2022, 03:16:06 AM
How to avoid it?
Easy.
By having at least two functioning brain cells to rub together and realize this person is a complete moron along with the legion of complete morons who try to "end" all settings with claims like "werewolf plague!" "Specter plague!" "Dwagons can fwy!" and on and on ad fucking nausium absolutium.

Morons.

explain, I'm a bit new here so i don't really get what you're referring to. I'll try to tackle what you said, though.

"werewolf plague" are they implying that a werewolf plague would have spread to every single person on earth?

"specter plague" i don't see how this is different from 'werewolf plague'

'dragons can fly' are they implying the existence of flying gigantic carnivorous nearly indestructible animals would change how human history and society would develop? i think it would.

the point of the tippyverse is to examine if a DND world had the same way the real world does- that is, instead of author fiat propping up worlds that shouldn't work the way they do, you take each feature, examine how they would interact with each other, and try to find where real life logic leads you.

Just because these spells are available, doesn't mean the demographics pan it out. In real life, we have enough food to feed the entire world, but there's still famine. Why?

How many clerics are there to even cast these spells? And are they not casting it for other things, like their own interests or their churches?

A D&D society works because it's fictional and/or because the DM says it does. 

Now, I want to just sit down and roll some dice.  Let's not over analyze something that was written as a game first and, well, nothing else comes to mind as a second point.  It is a game for adventure and fun, not a sociology study model. 

Or if that explanation doesn't do it for you, then there is more going on than the rule books are covering.  A lot more. 

Quote from: Omega on December 19, 2022, 03:16:06 AM
How to avoid it?
Easy.
By having at least two functioning brain cells to rub together and realize this person is a complete moron along with the legion of complete morons who try to "end" all settings with claims like "werewolf plague!" "Specter plague!" "Dwagons can fwy!" and on and on ad fucking nausium absolutium.

Morons.

The writer is not a moron, but he's not brilliant either. He pointed out an obvious exploit, in regards to using a Simulacrum to cast a Wish spell...in order to avoid suffering the negative side effects of casting Wish. That's just common sense.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....because 5e is a very poorly written game. The writers are complete brainlets, who made no attempt at dealing with unusual cases in implementing game mechanics, hence the "moron" writer came up with the idea of a spellcaster using a Mirage Arcane spell to seemingly change the terrain in an area up to 1 mile square into lava. To be fair, he didn't explain how the illusory lava from this spell would kill a target, so his assessment that he could use the spell to turn a city's foundation into an illusory lava lake, for the purpose of "killing millions" is just plain WRONG. He made a mistake. The 5e version of the Mirage Arcane spell creates a convincing illusion, but it doesn't actually warp reality. What the spell actually does is quite vague, because it's poorly written, while providing very limited guidelines for crafting illusions. This is no surprise. 5e is wet dog shit.

That said, I don't have a problem with people taking things to their logical conclusions, and I don't call people "morons" for doing it. I just wouldn't personally use 5e for a "Tippyverse" campaign, because it's such a horribly bad game system. Personally, I'd use either AD&D or D&D 3.x, and then try to see what happens.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on December 19, 2022, 03:34:27 AM

"werewolf plague" are they implying that a werewolf plague would have spread to every single person on earth?

"specter plague" i don't see how this is different from 'werewolf plague'

'dragons can fly' are they implying the existence of flying gigantic carnivorous nearly indestructible animals would change how human history and society would develop? i think it would.

the point of the tippyverse is to examine if a DND world had the same way the real world does- that is, instead of author fiat propping up worlds that shouldn't work the way they do, you take each feature, examine how they would interact with each other, and try to find where real life logic leads you.

tends to be built on modern vidya game derived assumptions and perceptions of rule interaction and outcome as a general thing, every casting of x does exactly y, attempting to apply magic as if it were science rather than art and spirituality...ten seconds later the schlump trying to pull this shit on you is complaining he cannot reskin his magic missile to be flaming shang t'sung skulls, waffling between rote science based magical application and free-form art as it suits them.

there is a certain mindset regarding rule application i first saw or noticed heavily among the the magic the gathering players, beginning (as far as i noticed) in 3e these types would pop up and give these wild theory craft sermons/whiteboard scenarios which relied upon a strict reading and interpretation the way the print on a magic card is treated; ie the presence of a colon or semi colon having a huge disparate outcome based on this strict adherence and way of reading it...this is just that boiled slow and with extra salt.

"dude you can totally raise the dead with baptism as part of the drowning rules, if you disagree you are not playing by the rules..."

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on December 19, 2022, 04:33:29 AM

Quote from: Omega on December 19, 2022, 03:16:06 AM
How to avoid it?
Easy.
By having at least two functioning brain cells to rub together and realize this person is a complete moron along with the legion of complete morons who try to "end" all settings with claims like "werewolf plague!" "Specter plague!" "Dwagons can fwy!" and on and on ad fucking nausium absolutium.

Morons.

The writer is not a moron, but he's not brilliant either. He pointed out an obvious exploit, in regards to using a Simulacrum to cast a Wish spell...in order to avoid suffering the negative side effects of casting Wish. That's just common sense.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....because 5e is a very poorly written game. The writers are complete brainlets, who made no attempt at dealing with unusual cases in implementing game mechanics, hence the "moron" writer came up with the idea of a spellcaster using a Mirage Arcane spell to seemingly change the terrain in an area up to 1 mile square into lava. To be fair, he didn't explain how the illusory lava from this spell would kill a target, so his assessment that he could use the spell to turn a city's foundation into an illusory lava lake, for the purpose of "killing millions" is just plain WRONG. He made a mistake. The 5e version of the Mirage Arcane spell creates a convincing illusion, but it doesn't actually warp reality. What the spell actually does is quite vague, because it's poorly written, while providing very limited guidelines for crafting illusions. This is no surprise. 5e is wet dog shit.

That said, I don't have a problem with people taking things to their logical conclusions, and I don't call people "morons" for doing it. I just wouldn't personally use 5e for a "Tippyverse" campaign, because it's such a horribly bad game system. Personally, I'd use either AD&D or D&D 3.x, and then try to see what happens.

Mirage Arcane can indeed harm: https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/988838034962436098?lang=en

Quote from: MeganovaStella on December 19, 2022, 02:28:20 AM
2. Change the expression of DND's rules (make DND's rules not the actual representation of a fictional reality)

I don't treat the rules as world physics. The rules are there to aid player interaction with the world. I often use various rules sets in the same world  - eg 1e AD&D and 5e D&D in my Wilderlands & my Grey Box Forgotten Realms; 5e D&D and Mini Six in my Primeval Thule. The world comes first.

I don't know what you mean by Change the expression of DND's rules though. The rules don't claim to be the physics of the world in any edition I know of; maybe 3e comes closest.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on December 19, 2022, 05:50:17 AM
Mirage Arcane can indeed harm: https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/988838034962436098?lang=en

I notice that some of the Twitter commenters point out that Crawford is just making shit up, as usual, without reference to the spell wording.

It's more that it is worded vaguely enough to allow that or not at all.

The spell says the terrain takes on the look, shape, and feel of what you desire, to the point it can impede your movement through it. If it can do that, wouldn't that mean it would reflect the heat of lava, for example?

baking your potatoes with illusory lava...

By pointing out that it's a game, not a universe simulator?

Sure, pointing out how the rules can be exploited can be fun, but that's not really an indication that the Tippyverse is more realistic than Faerun. It's just an indication that the magic system falls apart at higher levels.

They even discuss that in the Tippyverse thread.

The rules exist to help the GM express the setting consistently.  That's all they do.  The GM can ignore them, change them, house rule them, or anything else as needed to express the setting.  Full stop.

Anyone that doesn't understand that, doesn't understand how traditional table-top RPGs work.  Or is being a disingenuous twit.