Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;543402Well, the scaling of Hit Points can probably be ignored if we avoid Humans getting into scraps with squirrels and whatnot. Or maybe we can work around it by making small animals inflict no damage, or maybe provide Humans with a HP boost. I've considered taking cues from games such as Call of Cthulhu or Runequest or something. Call of Cthulhu, for example, has it so that HPs equal Size + Constitution divided by 2. For 1e, maybe I'd give characters starting HPs equaling Strength + Constitution divided by 2. To prevent the HP boost from getting ridiculous, I would disallow rerolls for HPs, so if I rolled only 1 Hit Point, then I'd have to suck it up. I don't know. I'm still thinking about it...

Your first option is a good deal more straightforward; just ignore damage from anything smaller than a medium sized dog.  The smaller animals just run away, dodging between legs or running through cracks in a wall or fence.  They really should be there for scenery only, until the party gets polymorphed into field mice or something.  Keeps things simple enough without causing problems.  I can't think of a legitimate scenario where squirrel damage is going to be a pivotal plot point.

I never understood the argument as, more often than not, cats won't fight a human and most PCs won't have any reason to fight a cat.

Anyway, Sacrificial Lamb's analysis seems pretty good to me. The rules are wonky at that point, which doesn't make AD&D shit or something. After all, it's a wonkyness tied to a very unlikely situation.

What the hell, TheRPGSite?! :eek:

I think the AD&D house cat stats are rubbish; they certainly don't match up with my conception of the way hit points and damage should be modeled when a normal adult human has around 2-7 hp.  If I ever had occasion to need to run a house cat in combat I'd probably just make up something that seemed reasonable.

Quote from: Imperator;543405I never understood the argument as, more often than not, cats won't fight a human and most PCs won't have any reason to fight a cat.

Anyway, Sacrificial Lamb's analysis seems pretty good to me. The rules are wonky at that point, which doesn't make AD&D shit or something. After all, it's a wonkyness tied to a very unlikely situation.

Like I say I ahve both killed and been killed in D&D by small animals largely acting as familiars.

But again the point isn't that animals are too tough or what not the point is that the game at its lowest level doesn't scale well. Estar's comment explains why but explaining why isn't the same as fixing it.

Either you suck it up and just cope or you increase HP and damage from most weapons. Like I said up post if a human has 4d6 HP at 0 level and a short sword does 4d6 then swords will be just as lethal but you can actually fit things like darts, cats, etc on the same scale (also means that HP bloat would slow down considerably if you added 1HD per level)
22% of 1st level MU (assuming that 12% of MUs have Con of 15 or more  for Ben...) have the same HP as a 6 month old baby now that isn't very sensible as a scale. Sure they may be the adventurers' equivalent of pasty faced D&D nerds but still....

However its a moot point as no one will be changing their mind anytime soon.

Here's the obvious answer - cats in D&D are badass. Why? Because somebody was a clearly a fan of HPL's Cats of Ulthar.

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;543203What if the cat had years of training, unlimited financial resources, and time to prepare the scene of the confrontation?  Like, say, if the magic-user killed both the cat's parents in an alley after seeing Zorro?  

This is my favorite evil cat:

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;543413I think the AD&D house cat stats are rubbish; they certainly don't match up with my conception of the way hit points and damage should be modeled when a normal adult human has around 2-7 hp.  If I ever had occasion to need to run a house cat in combat I'd probably just make up something that seemed reasonable.

I think it's because Gary had an affinity for cats.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;543437I think it's because Gary had an affinity for cats.

I really hope that is the reason, because it's one of the most blatant examples of the wonkyness that D&D has always created right there since Day 1.

In my own games that was not a problem because I run animals like, you know, animals, so usually they won't stay and fight, specially against bigger foes than them. But the HP system is shit, it was always shit, and continues to be shit these days. Frankly, how can anyone defend a mechanic that has been wonky since 1974 is beyond me.

Quote from: Imperator;543439But the HP system is shit, it was always shit, and continues to be shit these days. Frankly, how can anyone defend a mechanic that has been wonky since 1974 is beyond me.

I'll get the popcorn.

Quote from: StormBringer;543404I can't think of a legitimate scenario where squirrel damage is going to be a pivotal plot point.

Disrupting a magic-user.

Last summer I took a solo backpacking trip in the southern Sierra Nevada. My first night out I camped at a place called Chicken Spring Lake. A golden-mantled ground squirrel was making a complete nuisance of itself as I was preparing to make dinner, and the second I opened my food cache, it literally jumped on my back.

Experience tells me that this was a learned behavior, that the squirrel could startle people into dropping something and grabbing it in the confusion. (And no, the little bastard got nothing from me, and ended up leaving tooth marks on my bear can in frustration.)

So could elves, say, train squirrels leap from branches on unsuspecting magic-users and fuck up their spell casting? I'm thinking yes.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;543455Disrupting a magic-user.

You could rule it as a Saving Throw against Paralyzation and be done with it.

Quote from: Imperator;543439I really hope that is the reason, because it's one of the most blatant examples of the wonkyness that D&D has always created right there since Day 1.

In my own games that was not a problem because I run animals like, you know, animals, so usually they won't stay and fight, specially against bigger foes than them. But the HP system is shit, it was always shit, and continues to be shit these days. Frankly, how can anyone defend a mechanic that has been wonky since 1974 is beyond me.

:forge:

Quote from: Black Vulmea;543455Disrupting a magic-user.

So could elves, say, train squirrels leap from branches on unsuspecting magic-users and fuck up their spell casting? I'm thinking yes.

Ok, fair point.  However...

Quote from: Benoist;543457You could rule it as a Saving Throw against Paralyzation and be done with it.

..or a Concentration check or whatever.  It still doesn't require that damage be tracked.  Some kind of immediate effect or disease check can be warranted, but I think piddling with fractional damage or trying to puzzle out some way for the weakened Magic-User to survive an attack by Squirrels Gone Wild! is probably going overboard.

Quote from: Benoist;543457You could rule it as a Saving Throw against Paralyzation and be done with it.

Or you could just use the rules as written, such that a squirrel which does not hit successfully cannot disrupt a spell.