Quote from: Drohem;543530Does the Cat Lady from the Simpsons have a cat-throwing At-Will ability?

Also, I think that a gaggle of cats sounds more menacing.

She would never throw a cat, telepathically command? Sure but throw, never!

Quote from: talysman;543523No, I mean "swarms" as in "I have swarm rules, and I'll apply 'em to anything."

Cat Swarm
# appearing: d6 x 20; d6 HD, AC 9, Move 9, slows movement

Roll 1d6 for number of HD, multiply by 20 for the number of cats in the swarm. Treat the entire swarm as one monster that can engulf and slow creatures: halve the Move of any terrestrial creature with fewer hit dice. On a successful attack, multiple cats trip an opponent, leap on the body, and do 1d6 damage per round automatically until somehow removed. Every 6 points of damage done to a swarm reduces the effective HD of the swarm by 1, for all purposes. However, third-party attacks on a swarm that has engulfed victims are treated as attacks on the victims; they take the same amount of damage as the swarm.

(This is for OD&D, so you might want to change AC to 10 and up the 6 points per HD to 8 for AD&D.)

I see the spell Summon Cat Swarm in the near future....

Quote from: Marleycat;543533She would never throw a cat, telepathically command? Sure but throw, never!

Adam West from Family Guy has a crossbow that launches cats as missiles...

Yeah, the mayor's catbow!  That was awsome.

The Cat Lady did chuck cats at people at various times throughout the series.

Quote from: Drohem;543538Yeah, the mayor's catbow!  That was awsome.

Catbow?!?

Quote from: Marleycat;543508Packs, not swarms. Packs of cats!

A group of cats is called a "clowder", which obviously hints at some kind of mind-influencing effect that can be used against opponents....

The Cat Launcher.

Quote from: jeff37923;543541A group of cats is called a "clowder", which obviously hints at some kind of mind-influencing effect that can be used against opponents....

Yes, my pretties....go and cloud the mind of that pesky adventurer for me...

A) I know that I've read stories and watched horror movies in which a cat has killed a human. Not "realistic" but genre appropriate.

B) From the AD&D Monster Manual II "...domestic cats will not ordinarily attack medium or large creatures"

C) It's going to be hard for me not to make a side-dungeon that involves homicidal cats for this weekend. "Gardens of the Catmaster"?, "Dreams in the Cat House"?...

Quote from: Planet Algol;543551"Dreams in the Cat House"?...

That's a whole different type of Role-Play...

Quote from: Fiasco;543257Perspective guys. TSR fucked up the house cat but they didn't fuck up AD&D.

However, the mental gymnastics of trying to defend the house cat as written are pretty funny.

It's hilarious to watch the dishonest bullfuckery in action:

"Well maybe the magic-user has +2 hit points for high CON!"

"Well maybe the 1st-level magic-user has a magic item from the table that was included to equip mid to high-level parties!"

The fact that the two numbskulls who advanced these arguments -along with another doozy ("OH NOES! TEH MM2 IZ TEH OPSHUNUL!")- is, whether they want to admit it or not, an admission that in a one-on-one fight, a house cat is a serious danger to a 1st-level magic-user.

But the pièce de résistance has to be this one:

Quote from: Benoist;543250

QuoteOf course the wizard is merely unconscious! (What happens once they're unconscious again?)

Not "of course", by the book. You know, the actual AD&D rules. On 0 hit points they are unconscious, not dead. And what happens from there totally depends on the particular situation, whether the cat is alone, whether the MU is alone, wherever the fight takes place and so on, doesn't it?

So you admit that the magic-user needs someone on hand to apply first aid, bind his wounds and revive him after being reduced to zero hit points...

...from a house cat! :rotfl:

Concession accepted.

Quote from: Drohem;543471I have no problem with the Hit Point mechanic in general, nor any resultant wonkiness per se.  AD&D doesn't model 0-Hit Dice and less than 1-Hit Die creatures particularly well, but it still works close enough for Government work in my book.

I really like how 3.x D&D removed the concept of 0-Hit Die and less than 1-Hit Die for baseline humanity (i.e., people in general, which includes demi-humans and semi-humans) and made 1-Hit Die the base for humanity.  

I always did that with my Holmes, 1E and 2E games.

Quote from: Imperator;543439I really hope that is the reason, because it's one of the most blatant examples of the wonkyness that D&D has always created right there since Day 1.

Gygax also made dolphins Lawful Good, so maybe that's why.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;543369I think to take class levels a thingy needs an Int of 3 or better. You could do that it with templates (e.g. fiendish) or Awaken, though; maybe level advancement points.

I think the AD&D housecat is still worse. 1-3 on d6 surprise, and each segment of surprise lets you get off a full attack...

Going BtB, cats are "semi-intelligent", which means an INT of 2-4. So most cats would qualify.

Quote from: talysman;543495My own solution is: small predatory critters that have only 1 hp (or less) should only do damage on a roll of 6+ (d6). That represents the chance that their otherwise ineffectual attack might tear open an artery or something. Non-predators probably shouldn't get any effective attack; all attacks by normal bunnies are just fluff.

My brother had a brown rabbit ("Thumper" -how original!) he used to carry around like a baby back when he was 5 years old. My uncle bought a grey one for my cousin. She wanted a brown one and my brother agreed to swap (since the real Thumper was grey anyway). My uncle made the mistake of not picking up my brother's bunny like a baby and that little brown rabbit seriously fucked him up. It slashed his arms, chest, forehead, and uniform. He was the laughingstock of the Navy in Norfolk.

I'd say that was at least 1 hit point in damage, though his uniform failed its saving throw vs bunny claws.

I just assume that small creatures have only 1-2 hp, and will flee unless cornered (or charmed). Only cornered rats, bats, squirrels, mice, cats, skunks, etc will fight and at most do 1 point of damage.

Quote from: talysman;543495My own solution is: small predatory critters that have only 1 hp (or less) should only do damage on a roll of 6+ (d6). That represents the chance that their otherwise ineffectual attack might tear open an artery or something. Non-predators probably shouldn't get any effective attack; all attacks by normal bunnies are just fluff.

Quote from: Elfdart;543636My brother had a brown rabbit ("Thumper" -how original!) he used to carry around like a baby back when he was 5 years old. My uncle bought a grey one for my cousin. She wanted a brown one and my brother agreed to swap (since the real Thumper was grey anyway). My uncle made the mistake of not picking up my brother's bunny like a baby and that little brown rabbit seriously fucked him up. It slashed his arms, chest, forehead, and uniform. He was the laughingstock of the Navy in Norfolk.

I'd say that was at least 1 hit point in damage, though his uniform failed its saving throw vs bunny claws.

Do you think that it could have killed him? Because that's what 1 point of damage means. "Could kill some people." I'm OK with letting bunnies make someone seriously bloody/cause a lot of pain/give 'em a nasty scar. But I probably wouldn't let a bunny kill someone. Infection? Maybe. Bleed to death from unbandaged wounds? Maybe, if I decide to mess with bleeding rules.

Quote from: talysman;543656Do you think that it could have killed him? Because that's what 1 point of damage means. "Could kill some people." I'm OK with letting bunnies make someone seriously bloody/cause a lot of pain/give 'em a nasty scar. But I probably wouldn't let a bunny kill someone. Infection? Maybe. Bleed to death from unbandaged wounds? Maybe, if I decide to mess with bleeding rules.

I think this really boils down to what it means to be down to or only have one hp. If a 1 hp character is as vital as a 99 year old man with a heart condition, then it probably works. But if a 1 hp character is just a normal person, then its a stretch. However I think you make a good point: in a game where 1 hp people exist (even 90 hp people can be dropped to 1 hp) then anything that does 1 hp is potentially deadly.

Quote from: Elfdart;543636My brother had a brown rabbit ("Thumper" -how original!) he used to carry around like a baby back when he was 5 years old. My uncle bought a grey one for my cousin. She wanted a brown one and my brother agreed to swap (since the real Thumper was grey anyway). My uncle made the mistake of not picking up my brother's bunny like a baby and that little brown rabbit seriously fucked him up. It slashed his arms, chest, forehead, and uniform. He was the laughingstock of the Navy in Norfolk.

I'd say that was at least 1 hit point in damage, though his uniform failed its saving throw vs bunny claws.

I just assume that small creatures have only 1-2 hp, and will flee unless cornered (or charmed). Only cornered rats, bats, squirrels, mice, cats, skunks, etc will fight and at most do 1 point of damage.

"Ooh, it's just a harmless little bunny rabbit, you said.  You wouldn't believe ME..."

Quote from: jeff37923;543537Adam West from Family Guy has a crossbow that launches cats as missiles...

"I'm Catman."