SO as someone who couldn't get into DCC (it's seems a little too cutthroat up front, with it's suggestion to make several characters as the implication that several will die), what do these Mighty Deeds allow you to do?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;927237SO as someone who couldn't get into DCC (it's seems a little too cutthroat up front, with it's suggestion to make several characters as the implication that several will die), what do these Mighty Deeds allow you to do?

It open ended, however specifics are given for combat maneuvers like disarm, trip, precise shots, etc. The general idea is that if the deed dice is a 3 or higher then fighter can execute a special maneuver. Typically deed dice operates as a random to-hit bonus as well as a damage bonus for warriors. In the DCC RPG only the non-warrior classes have a fixed to hit bonus as result of their class.

Quote from: estar;927242It open ended, however specifics are given for combat maneuvers like disarm, trip, precise shots, etc. The general idea is that if the deed dice is a 3 or higher then fighter can execute a special maneuver. Typically deed dice operates as a random to-hit bonus as well as a damage bonus for warriors. In the DCC RPG only the non-warrior classes have a fixed to hit bonus as result of their class.

I've used Deeds to deal extra damage, inflict penalties by pain, throw an enemy with my sword the way you do in harnichfechten, gather allies around me and provide them extra AC as long as we keep the formation, and inflict terror in the enemies by display of skill, just as examples;).

Quote from: The Butcher;927011Always did, by encouraging players to try stunts such as disarming and tripping.



Attack roll at a variable penalty, depending on how outrageous the stunt.

Ok, but there's one very important difference in DCC compared to most other D&D-based systems. One of the things that frequently gimped fighters is that they could EITHER do a stunt of some sort, or just attack.  Often, the stunt is difficult to do, and unlikely to be more effective than just doing another 8hp damage. So except in very special circumstances (usually where it's literally impossible for some reason for the fighter to do regular damage), the fighter's every action will just be "I hit it with my sword".

In DCC, you can do a Mighty Deed AND attack. If you fail at the attack roll, then you also fail at the deed, but if you succeed the attack and beat the deed die number required, you get to do BOTH regular damage and the stunt effect.

That's what makes it special. And what means that while in a lot of D&D games the fighter becomes increasingly less powerful compared to other classes as the party level goes up, in DCC they are awesome at every level, and a high-level DCC fighter is amazing.

Quote from: estar;927055Opposed rolls don't work the same as classic D&D style saves.



Sure, I always advocated that the focus should be on describing first, come up with the rules second. If what described is possible for the character to attempt then the chance of success should be assigned and the dice rolled. A wizard can disarm but obviously wouldn't be as good at it as a fighter.

However we are talking specific mechanics here. The DCC RPG has a number of actions wrapped up in the Mighty Deeds of Arms mechanics that classic D&D traditionally handed with ad-hoc rulings like disarm, trip, precision shots, etc. The general introduction to Mighty Deeds also including things like swinging from chandlers. My view if something like this is included in a RPG and it is your opinion as a referee that any character can do some or all the things covered by it, then it needs to be incorporated into your ruling so that that warrior is still best at doing those things.

I for once would agree that a wizard can try for a precise shot, a thief can attempt to disarm, the cleric can trip an opponent. What I would do make sure that the warrior is the best at using Mighty Deeds of Arms is to allow the other classes to do Might Deeds at Arms except they turn their to hit bonus into a deed dice the same way as it done with the warrior. So a 6th level Thief would roll 1d4 because they have +4 to hit.

All the other classes to hit bonuses are clearly inferior to the warrior's deed dice so this would preserve the warrior being the best.

To me, the MAIN detail of "mighty deeds" is that unlike most other D&D games, where the warrior is forced to choose to EITHER attack and do damage or try to do something special (usually at a penalty, or in some way that is much harder than just rolling to hit), in DCC the fighter gets to do an attack AND try to do something special every single round.

In my DCC campaign, I allow any player to attempt just about everything that is covered by standard mighty deeds: trips, blinding attacks, precision strikes, defensive fighting, etc. But they do so only INSTEAD of their usual attack or other action.  The big advantage the fighter has, and that finally leaves him not-gimped compared to the spellcasters, is how he can do both at the same time and how he is massively more efficient at hitting and damaging than the other classes.

I probably love the DCC warrior most out of all the DCC classes. The Niche Protection is really good in DCC, and all the classes get to be really good at the thing they're supposed to be really good at; but with DCC you finally get warriors that are true killing machines (and fancy fighting machines) compared to the other classes. It's one of very few OSR games where the warrior doesn't feel inferior at by mid level to the cleric and magic-user.  There's others that accomplish this to some degree (LotFP does it by making fighters the ONLY class that gains to-hit bonuses as they level; and in my own Arrows of Indra and Appendix P rules I tried very hard to make warriors significantly more effective in combat to offset the other classes' special abilities), but DCC does it probably more excellently than any other game I've seen.  I didn't really realize just how much until I saw mid-level DCC warriors in action in my epic campaign.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;927237SO as someone who couldn't get into DCC (it's seems a little too cutthroat up front, with it's suggestion to make several characters as the implication that several will die), what do these Mighty Deeds allow you to do?

Other people have already given the list of typical examples: tripping, precision shots, blinding attacks, shield-breaking, defensive fighting, etc. etc.

What I'll add is this:
-Fighters get to do an attack AND try to do a mighty deed every single round.
-the deed die acts as their 'to-hit' bonus AND adds to the damage if they hit.
-You need a 3 or more on a deed die to succeed to at least some extent in your deed; at 1st level a warrior has a d3 deed die, so he'll only succeed on average at one in every 3 attempted deeds. But his deed die keeps growing as they go up in level; at lv.2 it's a d4, so they succeed at half their deeds. By level 5 or 6 it's around a d8, so they succeed at 75% of their deeds.

I've seen it used, in my epic DCC campaign, to some very impressive extents. In particular, two PCs (Vishal the former-brahmin and Chu the Boat-Swine) got high enough level as warriors to do some very impressive stunts: decapitations, acrobatic maneuvers to get to an opponent, lighting one opponent on fire while stabbing another through the chest, putting one opponent in the way of sword blow while cutting down another, etc.

I also had (before either of those two PCs) one mid-level NPC character, Sandy the Bikini-Chainmail Barbarian (later known as Sandy the Warlord), who I largely introduced to the party specifically to give the PCs who were playing warriors ideas about just what you can potentially do with mighty deeds.  I remember in particular one maneuver when the party were in essence prisoners of the famed drug lord Slothy Rodriguez, sitting unarmed at a very long dining table in his palatial hideout. When one of the PCs decided it was time to fight their way out (I don't remember if it was Bill the Elf or Ack'basha the Cleric, but one of those two famous PC assholes opened the affair by casting a spell of some kind), a lot of the other PCs ducked under the huge table to avoid the Sloths' barrage of uzi-fire, while a couple attacked the nearest gangster. Sandy, in turn, jumped up on her table grabbing her plate and cutlery, stabbing one of the guards in the jugular with her fork, threw her butter knife straight across the table directly into Slothy's eye, and beat a third guard into unconsciousness with her plate.

With two attacks (mid-level warriors have two attacks in DCC) she took down three guys in a single round and did it in a spectacular cinematic fashion. I think that was the moment that my players realized the potential of DCC warriors (they were until then more inclined to the spellcasting classes), realizing that Sandy did that not because I was cheating or doing something with an NPC that they could never do with a PC, but that I rolled all of it, and that the only difference between Sandy and any of them was a matter of level, so that their mid-level warriors would be able to be just as badass as some of the other PCs mid-level wizards or clerics.

Quote from: RPGPundit;928281Ok, but there's one very important difference in DCC compared to most other D&D-based systems. One of the things that frequently gimped fighters is that they could EITHER do a stunt of some sort, or just attack.  Often, the stunt is difficult to do, and unlikely to be more effective than just doing another 8hp damage. So except in very special circumstances (usually where it's literally impossible for some reason for the fighter to do regular damage), the fighter's every action will just be "I hit it with my sword".

In DCC, you can do a Mighty Deed AND attack. If you fail at the attack roll, then you also fail at the deed, but if you succeed the attack and beat the deed die number required, you get to do BOTH regular damage and the stunt effect.

That's what makes it special. And what means that while in a lot of D&D games the fighter becomes increasingly less powerful compared to other classes as the party level goes up, in DCC they are awesome at every level, and a high-level DCC fighter is amazing.

Quote from: RPGPundit;928282To me, the MAIN detail of "mighty deeds" is that unlike most other D&D games, where the warrior is forced to choose to EITHER attack and do damage or try to do something special (usually at a penalty, or in some way that is much harder than just rolling to hit), in DCC the fighter gets to do an attack AND try to do something special every single round.

In my DCC campaign, I allow any player to attempt just about everything that is covered by standard mighty deeds: trips, blinding attacks, precision strikes, defensive fighting, etc. But they do so only INSTEAD of their usual attack or other action.  The big advantage the fighter has, and that finally leaves him not-gimped compared to the spellcasters, is how he can do both at the same time and how he is massively more efficient at hitting and damaging than the other classes.

I probably love the DCC warrior most out of all the DCC classes. The Niche Protection is really good in DCC, and all the classes get to be really good at the thing they're supposed to be really good at; but with DCC you finally get warriors that are true killing machines (and fancy fighting machines) compared to the other classes. It's one of very few OSR games where the warrior doesn't feel inferior at by mid level to the cleric and magic-user.  There's others that accomplish this to some degree (LotFP does it by making fighters the ONLY class that gains to-hit bonuses as they level; and in my own Arrows of Indra and Appendix P rules I tried very hard to make warriors significantly more effective in combat to offset the other classes' special abilities), but DCC does it probably more excellently than any other game I've seen.  I didn't really realize just how much until I saw mid-level DCC warriors in action in my epic campaign.

For a welcome change, I agree with Pundit 100% here, and had even already mentioned the "extra action" for Estar:).

Quote from: RPGPundit;928283Other people have already given the list of typical examples: tripping, precision shots, blinding attacks, shield-breaking, defensive fighting, etc. etc.

What I'll add is this:
-Fighters get to do an attack AND try to do a mighty deed every single round.
-the deed die acts as their 'to-hit' bonus AND adds to the damage if they hit.
-You need a 3 or more on a deed die to succeed to at least some extent in your deed; at 1st level a warrior has a d3 deed die, so he'll only succeed on average at one in every 3 attempted deeds. But his deed die keeps growing as they go up in level; at lv.2 it's a d4, so they succeed at half their deeds. By level 5 or 6 it's around a d8, so they succeed at 75% of their deeds.

I've seen it used, in my epic DCC campaign, to some very impressive extents. In particular, two PCs (Vishal the former-brahmin and Chu the Boat-Swine) got high enough level as warriors to do some very impressive stunts: decapitations, acrobatic maneuvers to get to an opponent, lighting one opponent on fire while stabbing another through the chest, putting one opponent in the way of sword blow while cutting down another, etc.

I also had (before either of those two PCs) one mid-level NPC character, Sandy the Bikini-Chainmail Barbarian (later known as Sandy the Warlord), who I largely introduced to the party specifically to give the PCs who were playing warriors ideas about just what you can potentially do with mighty deeds.  I remember in particular one maneuver when the party were in essence prisoners of the famed drug lord Slothy Rodriguez, sitting unarmed at a very long dining table in his palatial hideout. When one of the PCs decided it was time to fight their way out (I don't remember if it was Bill the Elf or Ack'basha the Cleric, but one of those two famous PC assholes opened the affair by casting a spell of some kind), a lot of the other PCs ducked under the huge table to avoid the Sloths' barrage of uzi-fire, while a couple attacked the nearest gangster. Sandy, in turn, jumped up on her table grabbing her plate and cutlery, stabbing one of the guards in the jugular with her fork, threw her butter knife straight across the table directly into Slothy's eye, and beat a third guard into unconsciousness with her plate.

With two attacks (mid-level warriors have two attacks in DCC) she took down three guys in a single round and did it in a spectacular cinematic fashion. I think that was the moment that my players realized the potential of DCC warriors (they were until then more inclined to the spellcasting classes), realizing that Sandy did that not because I was cheating or doing something with an NPC that they could never do with a PC, but that I rolled all of it, and that the only difference between Sandy and any of them was a matter of level, so that their mid-level warriors would be able to be just as badass as some of the other PCs mid-level wizards or clerics.

This, and I want to note that if I was to run a campaign with warriors, I'd let results of 7+ on the Deed die accomplish things like parrying a spell (with a roll-off between the caster's and the warrior's level, of course, with results like a spell duel). I guess that some Referees wouldn't allow it, but I feel like there's enough precedent since Chainmail for the Fighting Man having fantastic abilities;).

Quote from: RPGPundit;928281In DCC, you can do a Mighty Deed AND attack. If you fail at the attack roll, then you also fail at the deed, but if you succeed the attack and beat the deed die number required, you get to do BOTH regular damage and the stunt effect.

Ah, I see. Sounds like a straightforward port in any case.

Maybe instead of a penalty, require a minimum positive margin on the attack roll to apply the stunt effect.

Pieter the Fighter squares off against a brigand, which he hits on a 8+ on the 1d20. He wants to disarm the bandit so he may capture and interrogate him. The DM rules this is a 4-point stunt, so he needs a 12+ to hit and disarm. He gets a 11, failing to disarm, but still inflicting damage.

For extra badassery, allow the PC to call the stunt after the die roll, knowing how high above the to-hit value he's rolled.

Or for maximum simplicity, just give the Fighter the deed die already. You already own the funny dice, don't you?

So, how does two attacks translate into 3 dead people?

Attack one - Jump up on table and stab a guy with the fork.  What did the Deed do exactly?  
Allow the jump and stab across the table?
Allow a fork to count as a dagger?
Simply narrate an instant-kill because Deed?

Attack Two - Throw the knife.  Again, what did the Deed do exactly?
Turn butterknife into dagger?
Turn attack into critical?

Attack Three - Beat someone to death with a plate?  Deed did what?
Allowed a plate to become a club and not break when used as an improvised weapon?
Extra damage?
Critical?

Two actual Action Dice means two attacks plus two Deeds, so one of the Deeds must have been used to gain a third attack, right?

Everyone has lots of interesting DCC anecdotes of what Deeds do, but no one ever places them in rule terms, at which point you really get as much system information as you would from a storygame player using some kind of metapoint to make things happen.

Quote from: AsenRG;928295This, and I want to note that if I was to run a campaign with warriors, I'd let results of 7+ on the Deed die accomplish things like parrying a spell (with a roll-off between the caster's and the warrior's level, of course, with results like a spell duel).

How as this done as the Might Deeds roll is made as an attack and not during the wizard's action.

Quote from: CRKrueger;928425So, how does two attacks translate into 3 dead people?

Attack one - Jump up on table and stab a guy with the fork.  What did the Deed do exactly?  
Allow the jump and stab across the table?
Allow a fork to count as a dagger?
Simply narrate an instant-kill because Deed?

Attack Two - Throw the knife.  Again, what did the Deed do exactly?
Turn butterknife into dagger?
Turn attack into critical?

Attack Three - Beat someone to death with a plate?  Deed did what?
Allowed a plate to become a club and not break when used as an improvised weapon?
Extra damage?
Critical?

Two actual Action Dice means two attacks plus two Deeds, so one of the Deeds must have been used to gain a third attack, right?

Everyone has lots of interesting DCC anecdotes of what Deeds do, but no one ever places them in rule terms, at which point you really get as much system information as you would from a storygame player using some kind of metapoint to make things happen.

I'd expect something like "I hit with my first attack and use my Deed for a Cleave-like action, then I throw the knife", in OOC terms:).
Though that's best answered by Pundit himself;).

Quote from: hedgehobbit;928426How as this done as the Might Deeds roll is made as an attack and not during the wizard's action.

"I cut the spell he's been casting in twain!"

Hmm, interesting.  I may have to adapt this mechanic for my home games.  Sounds very interesting.

Quote from: AsenRG;928295For a welcome change, I agree with Pundit 100% here, and had even already mentioned the "extra action" for Estar:).


This, and I want to note that if I was to run a campaign with warriors, I'd let results of 7+ on the Deed die accomplish things like parrying a spell (with a roll-off between the caster's and the warrior's level, of course, with results like a spell duel). I guess that some Referees wouldn't allow it, but I feel like there's enough precedent since Chainmail for the Fighting Man having fantastic abilities;).

Hmm. Never considered that. But I'd probably say that would only be possible with some kind of magic sword or magic shield.

Quote from: CRKrueger;928425So, how does two attacks translate into 3 dead people?

Attack one - Jump up on table and stab a guy with the fork.  What did the Deed do exactly?  
Allow the jump and stab across the table?
Allow a fork to count as a dagger?
Simply narrate an instant-kill because Deed?

Attack Two - Throw the knife.  Again, what did the Deed do exactly?
Turn butterknife into dagger?
Turn attack into critical?

Attack Three - Beat someone to death with a plate?  Deed did what?
Allowed a plate to become a club and not break when used as an improvised weapon?
Extra damage?
Critical?

Two actual Action Dice means two attacks plus two Deeds, so one of the Deeds must have been used to gain a third attack, right?

Everyone has lots of interesting DCC anecdotes of what Deeds do, but no one ever places them in rule terms, at which point you really get as much system information as you would from a storygame player using some kind of metapoint to make things happen.

Action 1: the Deed was to jump onto the table while stabbing the guy with the fork. The deed was to go from being seated to being on top of the table with a single leap while still getting to attack.

Action 2: the attack was throwing the knife, the deed was to hit someone with the plate at the same time. The damage from the knife was the full regular damage (the knife's base damage + str bonus + deed die bonus; and in this case, if I recall correctly, it was also a critical).  The plate's damage was the bonus damage indicated by the successful deed + str bonus + deed die.

Quote from: RPGPundit;929193Hmm. Never considered that. But I'd probably say that would only be possible with some kind of magic sword or magic shield.

That's why different Referees might make different rulings, isn't it:)?
To me, a fighter who achieved at least a d7 Deed die is magical enough, just like in Chainmail one of the level names was Superhero. I'd say a high-level fighter makes arcane forces swirl around his sword by unleashing his killer intent, because then the whole Death domain really pays attention;).