Imperium Maledictum & Wrath & Glory

daft · February 19, 2024, 01:07:04 AM

Quote from: ForgottenF on February 18, 2024, 05:46:48 PM
Quote from: daft on February 17, 2024, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 17, 2024, 10:26:00 AM
There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

I really love the Old World, but at some point I will probably have to check out AoS. And yeah, there are quite a few 40k RPGs out there now, but I only have the Cubicle 7 games, which is Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum.

I decided to give AoS a chance when I found out it's essentially Warhammer Fantasy Planescape. Not the most original idea, but still welcome to me. Much as I love the Old World, there's not enough plane-hopping interdimensional fantasy out there for my taste. The reason it interests me as an RPG setting is that in 40k-ing up Warhammer Fantasy, they seem to have cranked everything up to space marine power levels. I haven't yet seen a fantasy game pull off that kind of power in PCs, so I wonder if C7 can do it.

Hmmm, that does sound interesting. I have always been kind kind of dismissive towards AoS due to how much I like The Old World, but I'll have to get the PDF I suppose.

HappyDaze · February 19, 2024, 01:10:55 AM

Quote from: Angry Goblin on February 19, 2024, 12:59:25 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on February 18, 2024, 09:42:55 AM
Wrath & Glory is a weird attempt to make a very casual 40k RPG. Avoid it. Not because it's casual but because it's very poorly thought out and filled with errors.

Imperium Maledictum is much better. It's essentially the third edition of Dark Heresy. If you're familiar with WFRP then the rules and tone are very similar but in space. It's a brutal, lethal and dark game. The main differences between IM and DH is that IM cleans up and streamlines the Rules. It's still pretty crunchy though. And unlike Dark Heresy you're not just restricted to being an acolyte in an Inquisitor's employ. IM has a Patron system where you make a high level NPC who gives you missions. And this NPC can belong to one of several groups within 40k. Which does give IM a little more versatility without breaking the lore like W&G though. No matter what though, just like Dark Hersey IM goes to great lengths to explain that you're just a regular person. You can't be a Space Marine. I

like it. I think it cleans up Dark Heresy much better than 2e did. And I'd recommend it over Dark Heresy 1e which was my go to for 40k RPGs until recently. But don't go in expecting heroic power levels. Lethality in Dark Heresy was no joke and IM continues the tradition of the majority of weapons being one hit kills for new PCs.

That was quite a sales pitch, I might have to check IM out then. Too bad there is only the corebook available, it seems. Ruleswise, I assume based on your post that the rules are somewhat combatible with let´s say Rogue Trader?

Comparable, but not truly compatible. You can compare characteristic scores (e.g., Strength, Toughness, Perception, Willpower) as they are on a similar scale, but skills scale somewhat differently, and Talents are totally different. Likewise, gear is quite different--a lasgun is much more of a threat in IM than in DH/RT, and Toughness doesn't work as innate armour. At best, I'd suggest taking a DH/RT character/monster and using it as a rough guide when building it for IM, but don't expect it to fit perfectly.

HappyDaze · February 19, 2024, 01:13:45 AM

Quote from: daft on February 19, 2024, 01:07:04 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 18, 2024, 05:46:48 PM
Quote from: daft on February 17, 2024, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 17, 2024, 10:26:00 AM
There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

I really love the Old World, but at some point I will probably have to check out AoS. And yeah, there are quite a few 40k RPGs out there now, but I only have the Cubicle 7 games, which is Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum.

I decided to give AoS a chance when I found out it's essentially Warhammer Fantasy Planescape. Not the most original idea, but still welcome to me. Much as I love the Old World, there's not enough plane-hopping interdimensional fantasy out there for my taste. The reason it interests me as an RPG setting is that in 40k-ing up Warhammer Fantasy, they seem to have cranked everything up to space marine power levels. I haven't yet seen a fantasy game pull off that kind of power in PCs, so I wonder if C7 can do it.

Hmmm, that does sound interesting. I have always been kind kind of dismissive towards AoS due to how much I like The Old World, but I'll have to get the PDF I suppose.

AoS: Soulbound can be fun, but I'll warn you that it's a hard game to get a feel for appropriate threats. I have had two TPKs in six months of running it...one was because the players make stupid choices, but the other was rather surprising as it was in an introductory adventure and had no hints that it could go so bad so fast.

Angry Goblin · February 19, 2024, 04:07:28 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 19, 2024, 01:10:55 AM
Quote from: Angry Goblin on February 19, 2024, 12:59:25 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on February 18, 2024, 09:42:55 AM
Wrath & Glory is a weird attempt to make a very casual 40k RPG. Avoid it. Not because it's casual but because it's very poorly thought out and filled with errors.

Imperium Maledictum is much better. It's essentially the third edition of Dark Heresy. If you're familiar with WFRP then the rules and tone are very similar but in space. It's a brutal, lethal and dark game. The main differences between IM and DH is that IM cleans up and streamlines the Rules. It's still pretty crunchy though. And unlike Dark Heresy you're not just restricted to being an acolyte in an Inquisitor's employ. IM has a Patron system where you make a high level NPC who gives you missions. And this NPC can belong to one of several groups within 40k. Which does give IM a little more versatility without breaking the lore like W&G though. No matter what though, just like Dark Hersey IM goes to great lengths to explain that you're just a regular person. You can't be a Space Marine. I

like it. I think it cleans up Dark Heresy much better than 2e did. And I'd recommend it over Dark Heresy 1e which was my go to for 40k RPGs until recently. But don't go in expecting heroic power levels. Lethality in Dark Heresy was no joke and IM continues the tradition of the majority of weapons being one hit kills for new PCs.

That was quite a sales pitch, I might have to check IM out then. Too bad there is only the corebook available, it seems. Ruleswise, I assume based on your post that the rules are somewhat combatible with let´s say Rogue Trader?
Comparable, but not truly compatible. You can compare characteristic scores (e.g., Strength, Toughness, Perception, Willpower) as they are on a similar scale, but skills scale somewhat differently, and Talents are totally different. Likewise, gear is quite different--a lasgun is much more of a threat in IM than in DH/RT, and Toughness doesn't work as innate armour. At best, I'd suggest taking a DH/RT character/monster and using it as a rough guide when building it for IM, but don't expect it to fit perfectly.

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated!

spon · February 19, 2024, 08:35:30 AM

I've played and run WaG, and I love it. It's not perfect, but you can run fun games with it and there's enough there to give it some crunch whilst having a veneer of modernity. Also, it has a nice 40K feel to it.
It has some issues, but they're pretty minor.

I haven't tried IM, but I've heard both bad and good things about it. One set of people said it was "fail city", where no one could make their rolls (a bit like RT/DW), whereas the other group said they had great fun. I'll probably try it out at a con and see how it goes.

spon · February 19, 2024, 08:37:40 AM

I do agree that WaG needs to improve their pryffrooding, though.

Angry Goblin · February 19, 2024, 10:08:25 AM

Quote
Comparable, but not truly compatible. You can compare characteristic scores (e.g., Strength, Toughness, Perception, Willpower) as they are on a similar scale, but skills scale somewhat differently, and Talents are totally different. Likewise, gear is quite different--a lasgun is much more of a threat in IM than in DH/RT, and Toughness doesn't work as innate armour. At best, I'd suggest taking a DH/RT character/monster and using it as a rough guide when building it for IM, but don't expect it to fit perfectly.

Ok, I guess it should not be too difficult to port old material to IM. Have you tried it yourself?

King Tyranno · February 19, 2024, 07:16:13 PM

Quote from: Angry Goblin on February 19, 2024, 12:59:25 AM
Quote from: King Tyranno on February 18, 2024, 09:42:55 AM
Wrath & Glory is a weird attempt to make a very casual 40k RPG. Avoid it. Not because it's casual but because it's very poorly thought out and filled with errors.

Imperium Maledictum is much better. It's essentially the third edition of Dark Heresy. If you're familiar with WFRP then the rules and tone are very similar but in space. It's a brutal, lethal and dark game. The main differences between IM and DH is that IM cleans up and streamlines the Rules. It's still pretty crunchy though. And unlike Dark Heresy you're not just restricted to being an acolyte in an Inquisitor's employ. IM has a Patron system where you make a high level NPC who gives you missions. And this NPC can belong to one of several groups within 40k. Which does give IM a little more versatility without breaking the lore like W&G though. No matter what though, just like Dark Hersey IM goes to great lengths to explain that you're just a regular person. You can't be a Space Marine. I

like it. I think it cleans up Dark Heresy much better than 2e did. And I'd recommend it over Dark Heresy 1e which was my go to for 40k RPGs until recently. But don't go in expecting heroic power levels. Lethality in Dark Heresy was no joke and IM continues the tradition of the majority of weapons being one hit kills for new PCs.

That was quite a sales pitch, I might have to check IM out then. Too bad there is only the corebook available, it seems. Ruleswise, I assume based on your post that the rules are somewhat combatible with let´s say Rogue Trader?

You could probably convert Rogue Trader stuff but at the end of the day IM is way more streamlined than Rogue Trader. And is a continuation of the spirit and mechanics of Dark Heresy. Not Rogue Trader. IM being a more generic version of Dark Heresy can hinder the game if you really want to do the same sorts of things you could do in Rogue Trader. There simply aren't rules for commanding ships, trading, or doing most of the things you would expect from an RT campaign. So you're going to have to get creative there. It would take some work. But I think it's possible.

daft · February 20, 2024, 01:28:28 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 19, 2024, 01:13:45 AM
Quote from: daft on February 19, 2024, 01:07:04 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 18, 2024, 05:46:48 PM
Quote from: daft on February 17, 2024, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 17, 2024, 10:26:00 AM
There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

Sounds very Warhammer-esque.

I really love the Old World, but at some point I will probably have to check out AoS. And yeah, there are quite a few 40k RPGs out there now, but I only have the Cubicle 7 games, which is Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum.

I decided to give AoS a chance when I found out it's essentially Warhammer Fantasy Planescape. Not the most original idea, but still welcome to me. Much as I love the Old World, there's not enough plane-hopping interdimensional fantasy out there for my taste. The reason it interests me as an RPG setting is that in 40k-ing up Warhammer Fantasy, they seem to have cranked everything up to space marine power levels. I haven't yet seen a fantasy game pull off that kind of power in PCs, so I wonder if C7 can do it.

Hmmm, that does sound interesting. I have always been kind kind of dismissive towards AoS due to how much I like The Old World, but I'll have to get the PDF I suppose.
AoS: Soulbound can be fun, but I'll warn you that it's a hard game to get a feel for appropriate threats. I have had two TPKs in six months of running it...one was because the players make stupid choices, but the other was rather surprising as it was in an introductory adventure and had no hints that it could go so bad so fast.

Sounds like Warhammer.

HappyDaze · February 20, 2024, 07:04:56 AM

Quote from: daft on February 20, 2024, 01:28:28 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on February 19, 2024, 01:13:45 AM
Quote from: daft on February 19, 2024, 01:07:04 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 18, 2024, 05:46:48 PM
Quote from: daft on February 17, 2024, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on February 17, 2024, 10:26:00 AM
There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

Sounds very Warhammer-esque.

I really love the Old World, but at some point I will probably have to check out AoS. And yeah, there are quite a few 40k RPGs out there now, but I only have the Cubicle 7 games, which is Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum.

I decided to give AoS a chance when I found out it's essentially Warhammer Fantasy Planescape. Not the most original idea, but still welcome to me. Much as I love the Old World, there's not enough plane-hopping interdimensional fantasy out there for my taste. The reason it interests me as an RPG setting is that in 40k-ing up Warhammer Fantasy, they seem to have cranked everything up to space marine power levels. I haven't yet seen a fantasy game pull off that kind of power in PCs, so I wonder if C7 can do it.

Hmmm, that does sound interesting. I have always been kind kind of dismissive towards AoS due to how much I like The Old World, but I'll have to get the PDF I suppose.
AoS: Soulbound can be fun, but I'll warn you that it's a hard game to get a feel for appropriate threats. I have had two TPKs in six months of running it...one was because the players make stupid choices, but the other was rather surprising as it was in an introductory adventure and had no hints that it could go so bad so fast.

Sounds like Warhammer.

In actual play, I found WFRP (mostly 2e, but even a bit of 4e) to be far easier to balance--at least when a 'balanced encpunter' was the goal, which was pretty infrequently in that game, since a fiar fight was almost always something to be avoided.

daft · February 21, 2024, 01:07:40 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 20, 2024, 07:04:56 AM

In actual play, I found WFRP (mostly 2e, but even a bit of 4e) to be far easier to balance--at least when a 'balanced encpunter' was the goal, which was pretty infrequently in that game, since a fiar fight was almost always something to be avoided.

I see. We are prepping for a one-shot currently, and the GM is also new. This could be interesting,

Granted, we'll be running an official scenario so hopefully we won't all perish in the first encounter lol