Anyone played these? I am a huge lore junkie when it comes to Warhammer, and I have one session of WFRP 4e on Foundry under my belt (awesome fun). I have read the rules for both W&G and IM and I really like them both for different reasons, but have never played as it is extremely hard to find games.

Any thoughts on the systems?

I've bought W&G, but I haven't read it yet.

Imperium Maledictum will be on my next purchase, sometime in December.

I loved the FFG system, specially Rogue Trader, but it seems they have changed systems with the new license holders.

I took a run at a trimmed down WFRP based 40k rpg last spring it was the result of some friends wanting to do a 40k campaign and me not wanting to buy the books.  It's also an attempt at renaming everything and scrubbing the serial numbers off. 

http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/darkerf.pdf

Quote from: BronzeDragon on February 16, 2024, 06:05:03 PM
I loved the FFG system, specially Rogue Trader, but it seems they have changed systems with the new license holders.

Regarding WH40k gaming in general:

I concur with this, Rogue Trader is great! It´s basically Traveller meets WH40k. The ship building is great fun and combat is intense. Dark Heresy is also ok, more or less same rules, though I´v only had the 1st edition, the 2nd edition might have corrected the Dark Heresy line for better. I´v read only bits of Only War/Black Crusade/Deathwatch and they did not impress me, though I don´t know enough about them to give an honest oppinion.

The new WH40k RPG´s however SEEM like 5e meets WH40k to me, as if the writers have taken serious liberties with the sensibilities of the world to sell to a bigger audience. However, I have not played them nor have I extensively read them. I don´t know how to explain it better than when I have seen the books or read about them, something is off, I´v been a fan from early 90´s and those games turn me off atleast. I would like to like them, i just can´t.

Regarding WHRP gaming in general:

The WHRP 2nd edition was the best one of the line imo. 1st edition was great, but 2nd was like a remake or a polished version of the 1st. It is slightly slower system because it gives more options in combat. From 3rd edition on, the games look more fancy but the content is shite, those went to the same direction as 5e, liberties taken which break the immersion.

Wrath & Glory has some of the worst errors of any game I've ever seen. The Xenos book and the Aeldari book feature errors on almost every page that has game stats. There is also almost no attempt to balance...well...anything.

W & G also suffers from a weird take on the setting. Having one world where everything is all stuck together might work for a Dawn of War video game, but it seems very forced and ugly, at least to me.

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 17, 2024, 01:29:39 AM
Wrath & Glory has some of the worst errors of any game I've ever seen. The Xenos book and the Aeldari book feature errors on almost every page that has game stats. There is also almost no attempt to balance...well...anything.

W & G also suffers from a weird take on the setting. Having one world where everything is all stuck together might work for a Dawn of War video game, but it seems very forced and ugly, at least to me.

Interesting, and yeah, C7 seems to be sloppy when it comes to proof reading. They have messed this up on several products.

Quote from: David Johansen on February 17, 2024, 12:17:05 AM
I took a run at a trimmed down WFRP based 40k rpg last spring it was the result of some friends wanting to do a 40k campaign and me not wanting to buy the books.  It's also an attempt at renaming everything and scrubbing the serial numbers off. 

http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/darkerf.pdf

Cool! I hope to play Wrath & Glory soon as I seem to have found a group online now.

There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

Quote from: ForgottenF on February 17, 2024, 10:26:00 AM
There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

I really love the Old World, but at some point I will probably have to check out AoS. And yeah, there are quite a few 40k RPGs out there now, but I only have the Cubicle 7 games, which is Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum.

Quote from: daft on February 17, 2024, 05:46:00 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 17, 2024, 01:29:39 AM
Wrath & Glory has some of the worst errors of any game I've ever seen. The Xenos book and the Aeldari book feature errors on almost every page that has game stats. There is also almost no attempt to balance...well...anything.

W & G also suffers from a weird take on the setting. Having one world where everything is all stuck together might work for a Dawn of War video game, but it seems very forced and ugly, at least to me.

Interesting, and yeah, C7 seems to be sloppy when it comes to proof reading. They have messed this up on several products.

I own all the Wrath & Glory line, all of the Soulbound line, and the core book for Imperium Maledictum. I can say that Wrath and Glory is FAR WORSE than the other two lines for proofing. Some of the errors require guess work to even determine what they were trying to do. As an example, how the fuck do Swooping Hawk grenade packs work? They have no range, nor any rules for special use (like dropping as a free action when charging or disengaging or...something). If your GM had already planned to extensively house rule, then this game is written for it (but that's not a complement).

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 17, 2024, 09:01:56 PM
I own all the Wrath & Glory line, all of the Soulbound line, and the core book for Imperium Maledictum. I can say that Wrath and Glory is FAR WORSE than the other two lines for proofing. Some of the errors require guess work to even determine what they were trying to do. As an example, how the fuck do Swooping Hawk grenade packs work? They have no range, nor any rules for special use (like dropping as a free action when charging or disengaging or...something). If your GM had already planned to extensively house rule, then this game is written for it (but that's not a complement).

I'm rusty on the W&G rules, but my reading is that you can trigger them as an action and drop them on targets, typically structures, when you fly overhead. From pg 83 of the Aeldari book:
"Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack: The greaves of Swooping Hawk armour include specialised grenade packs the warrior can trigger as they fly, demolishing defences from above."

If the player is wanting to use them in another situation, then that would probably be up to the GM as to whether or not it was allowed and how it might work.

Wrath & Glory is a weird attempt to make a very casual 40k RPG. Avoid it. Not because it's casual but because it's very poorly thought out and filled with errors.

Imperium Maledictum is much better. It's essentially the third edition of Dark Heresy. If you're familiar with WFRP then the rules and tone are very similar but in space. It's a brutal, lethal and dark game. The main differences between IM and DH is that IM cleans up and streamlines the Rules. It's still pretty crunchy though. And unlike Dark Heresy you're not just restricted to being an acolyte in an Inquisitor's employ. IM has a Patron system where you make a high level NPC who gives you missions. And this NPC can belong to one of several groups within 40k. Which does give IM a little more versatility without breaking the lore like W&G though. No matter what though, just like Dark Hersey IM goes to great lengths to explain that you're just a regular person. You can't be a Space Marine. I

like it. I think it cleans up Dark Heresy much better than 2e did. And I'd recommend it over Dark Heresy 1e which was my go to for 40k RPGs until recently. But don't go in expecting heroic power levels. Lethality in Dark Heresy was no joke and IM continues the tradition of the majority of weapons being one hit kills for new PCs.

Quote from: King Tyranno on February 18, 2024, 09:42:55 AM
Wrath & Glory is a weird attempt to make a very casual 40k RPG. Avoid it. Not because it's casual but because it's very poorly thought out and filled with errors.

Imperium Maledictum is much better. It's essentially the third edition of Dark Heresy. If you're familiar with WFRP then the rules and tone are very similar but in space. It's a brutal, lethal and dark game. The main differences between IM and DH is that IM cleans up and streamlines the Rules. It's still pretty crunchy though. And unlike Dark Heresy you're not just restricted to being an acolyte in an Inquisitor's employ. IM has a Patron system where you make a high level NPC who gives you missions. And this NPC can belong to one of several groups within 40k. Which does give IM a little more versatility without breaking the lore like W&G though. No matter what though, just like Dark Hersey IM goes to great lengths to explain that you're just a regular person. You can't be a Space Marine. I

like it. I think it cleans up Dark Heresy much better than 2e did. And I'd recommend it over Dark Heresy 1e which was my go to for 40k RPGs until recently. But don't go in expecting heroic power levels. Lethality in Dark Heresy was no joke and IM continues the tradition of the majority of weapons being one hit kills for new PCs.

I've played neither but read both, I have been more impressed by IM for sure.

Quote from: daft on February 17, 2024, 01:34:14 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on February 17, 2024, 10:26:00 AM
There's a guy I play with who is always talking up wrath and glory as the best 40k system yet. Personally I find it awkward to keep track of which 40k RPG is which. Whichever is the one where you play as Imperial agents trying to root out chaos cults sounds interesting. I'm always more of a fan of the parts of that setting that don't involve armored refrigerator-men smashing into each other.

I'm quite tempted to check out the Age of Sigmar RPG at some point. After ignoring it on principle for the last few years I finally started reading up on AoS recently. The Ground Marines are still cringe, but the setting has some merit. I'm curious to see if anyone could get what is essentially the highest of high fantasy working coherently in a tabletop RPG.

I really love the Old World, but at some point I will probably have to check out AoS. And yeah, there are quite a few 40k RPGs out there now, but I only have the Cubicle 7 games, which is Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum.

I decided to give AoS a chance when I found out it's essentially Warhammer Fantasy Planescape. Not the most original idea, but still welcome to me. Much as I love the Old World, there's not enough plane-hopping interdimensional fantasy out there for my taste. The reason it interests me as an RPG setting is that in 40k-ing up Warhammer Fantasy, they seem to have cranked everything up to space marine power levels. I haven't yet seen a fantasy game pull off that kind of power in PCs, so I wonder if C7 can do it.

Quote from: King Tyranno on February 18, 2024, 09:42:55 AM
Wrath & Glory is a weird attempt to make a very casual 40k RPG. Avoid it. Not because it's casual but because it's very poorly thought out and filled with errors.

Imperium Maledictum is much better. It's essentially the third edition of Dark Heresy. If you're familiar with WFRP then the rules and tone are very similar but in space. It's a brutal, lethal and dark game. The main differences between IM and DH is that IM cleans up and streamlines the Rules. It's still pretty crunchy though. And unlike Dark Heresy you're not just restricted to being an acolyte in an Inquisitor's employ. IM has a Patron system where you make a high level NPC who gives you missions. And this NPC can belong to one of several groups within 40k. Which does give IM a little more versatility without breaking the lore like W&G though. No matter what though, just like Dark Hersey IM goes to great lengths to explain that you're just a regular person. You can't be a Space Marine. I

like it. I think it cleans up Dark Heresy much better than 2e did. And I'd recommend it over Dark Heresy 1e which was my go to for 40k RPGs until recently. But don't go in expecting heroic power levels. Lethality in Dark Heresy was no joke and IM continues the tradition of the majority of weapons being one hit kills for new PCs.

That was quite a sales pitch, I might have to check IM out then. Too bad there is only the corebook available, it seems. Ruleswise, I assume based on your post that the rules are somewhat combatible with let´s say Rogue Trader?