Hey folks, I´m done with it.
Internet discourse still is fucked, and I´m going to tell you why:

Because it´s about the moral values underlying your gaming.

All gaming discourse is currently tainted by pussyfooting around that. Especially a certain ilk of well known Jargonistas hide their moral judgements behind allegedly neutral terminology.

That´s bullshit.

All gameplay discussion has it´s roots in moral values.

What is known about the discussion of moral values?

"From an empirical view, communication about moral values is adjacent to a quarrell and thusly in the vicinity of violence. It leads to an overengagement of the participants, due to the continued expression of respect and disrespect."
- Niklas Luhmann


So now I know what is fucked up, and there´s only three ways of coping with it:

- fighting the fight for your moral values
- don´t engage at all
- humour

Humour is the most difficult.

I for one, will fight the fight, with open cards.

Here you have it:
"Gaming that is without challenges to the players, is morally comparable to getting drunk."

Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
A fly can't bird, but a bird can fly.
Ask me a riddle and I reply
Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie.

Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
Why does a chicken? I don't know why.
Ask me a riddle and I reply
Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie.

Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
A fish can't whistle and neither can I.
Ask me a riddle and I reply
Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie. - Winne-ther-Pooh

Nothing wrong with getting drunk.

Quote from: SettembriniBecause it´s about the moral values underlying your gaming.

That is the either the most disturbing or most humorous thing that I've ever read, depending upon the context. You're either taking your leisure pursuits far too seriously or you're a brilliant, as yet untapped, comedic talent.

QuoteYou're either taking your leisure pursuits far too seriously or you're a brilliant, as yet untapped, comedic talent.

No, it´s just the truth.
Sad, you can´t see it. Couldn´t have put it more bluntly.

Discussing the merits of gaming styles or rules systems: in the background there is a discussion on moral values of your gaming habits going on.

It´s way more productive to put that out into the open. Like droog did. See, i cannot argue woth droog anymore. our other thread is now factually superfluous.

Droogs gaming habits allow and endorse effortless collective enjoyment, can´t argue with that.
 
So many problems so easily solved, just by being honest enough.

All those snarkery can be spared, and everybody can see where everyone else is coming from.

That just makes it more interesting.

Because it´s more honest.

I´m sick of placeholder discussions.

Honest?

QuoteHere you have it:
"Gaming that is without challenges to the players, is morally comparable to getting drunk."

It has been very apparent that you wouldn't know challenge if it up and cornholed you.  You say "THIS IS A CHALLENGE OVER HERE!" only it isn't the only one, and you don't see the others. So you assume you are Morally Right and look down on all the other challenges.

Quote from: jdrakehThat is the either the most disturbing or most humorous thing that I've ever read, depending upon the context. You're either taking your leisure pursuits far too seriously or you're a brilliant, as yet untapped, comedic talent.

My money is on "AND" instead of "OR".  The Accidental Comic.

"Discussing the merits of gaming styles or rules systems: in the background there is a discussion on moral values of your gaming habits going on..."

It makes sense to me in a way. I've already noted extensive smug supremacism surrounding these discussions as well as a tendency to immediately accuse detractors of having political affiliations which seemingly have no context.

Quote from: Abyssal MawIt makes sense to me in a way. I've already noted extensive smug supremacism surrounding these discussions as well as a tendency to immediately accuse detractors of having political affiliations which seemingly have no context.

You're refering to Sett, right?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: SettembriniBecause it´s about the moral values underlying your gaming.

You know, this is just a hobby.  If you're treating your 'playstyle' as a deep matter of morality, then something is seriously skewed.  It's an aesthetic issue, if anything.

Quote from: SettembriniHere you have it:
"Gaming that is without challenges to the players, is morally comparable to getting drunk."

Getting drunk is morally commendable.  And it sometimes can involve rather serious challenges (e.g. unlocking the door to one's flat at the end of the night...). :DRUNKANI:

QuoteAll gameplay discussion has it´s roots in moral values.

What is known about the discussion of moral values?

"From an empirical view, communication about moral values is adjacent to a quarrell and thusly in the vicinity of violence. It leads to an overengagement of the participants, due to the continued expression of respect and disrespect."
- Niklas Luhmann

Aye - it is true.

I don't know what to do about it. Most of discussion is based on making yourself feel clever or validating your kink. And that basically does mean judging others as less than yourself.

Quote from: David RYou're refering to Sett, right?

Whoever he's talking about it has inspired me to change my sig.

Quote from: SettembriniIt´s way more productive to put that out into the open. Like droog did. See, i cannot argue woth droog anymore. our other thread is now factually superfluous.

Droogs gaming habits allow and endorse effortless collective enjoyment, can´t argue with that.

Well, I think my habits are actually a little more nuanced, at least these days. I do claim, however, to be familiar with that way of approaching roleplaying. It was something I did for a long time.